Lionel Messi - v7

[kollegah]

++++++++++++++++BREAKING NEWS+++++++++++++++++++++++

++++++++++FC Barcelona Forward Lionel Messi will return and participate in Barcelonas trainings sessions on Monday 07.09.2020++++++++++

 

[KingLeo10]

2011
2015 at home

You have to admit that it is slightly weird:
1. iirc no KO goals for Argentina ever
2. 1 away KO goal in the last 5-6 seasons iirc for Barca
3. almost zero goals in dying minutes in Europe, for a win or for a draw

His style of play (dropping deep and being somewhat onedimensional in the last few years), Messipendencia where everyone knows whom we will pass the ball and his Jekyll&Hyde personality have lead to this.

Goat in La Liga
Goat at Camp Nou
Goat from 2008-2013
MIA in majority of KO away matches after 2012, especially after 2015

If he kept his 08-13 level for the last 12 years, he would be by far the greatest player ever in this sport (like a Jordan).

We expected too much from him based on what he'd achieved through 2013. I've posted in this thread that I thought he was THE GOAT in 2015 but now he's a GOAT (along with 3-4-5 other players on the same level).

Didn't you post the other day how all the GOAT tier players have 4-5 years of absolute dominance and that's it? Messi had his earlier and CR7's had his 14-18. Cruyff had his 70-74. DiStefano 55-60 and so forth. So, at the end of the day, our views really aren't all that different.

 

[eaman]

2011
2015 at home

You have to admit that it is slightly weird:
1. iirc no KO goals for Argentina ever
2. 1 away KO goal in the last 5-6 seasons iirc for Barca
3. almost zero goals in dying minutes in Europe KO matches, for a win or for a draw, in his whole career

His style of play (dropping deep and being somewhat onedimensional in the last few years), Messipendencia where everyone knows whom we will pass the ball and his Jekyll&Hyde (home and away form) personality have lead to this.

Goat in La Liga
Goat at Camp Nou
Goat from 2008-2013
MIA in majority of KO away matches after 2012, especially after 2015

Where do get your facts? A ronaldo fansite. He has plenty of argentina knockout goals.

 

[SmilerBam]

If he kept his 08-13 level for the last 12 years, he would be by far the greatest player ever in this sport (like a Jordan).

We expected too much from him based on what he'd achieved through 2013. I've posted in this thread that I thought he was THE GOAT in 2015 but now he's a GOAT (along with 3-4-5 other players on the same level).

Didn't you post the other day how all the GOAT tier players have 4-5 years of absolute dominance and that's it? Messi had his earlier and CR7's had his 14-18. Cruyff had his 70-74. DiStefano 55-60 and so forth. So, at the end of the day, our views really aren't all that different.

Do you people ever consider other factors in a players success too?Like idk,team mates, coaches, transfers etc.?Barcelona have been grossly mismanaged for a better part of a decade,is it Messi's fault too?And what's with this cross-sports player comparison?It's inappropriate,you can't compare individuals from different sports.Anyway,Messi,individually,has done very well all his career,and from 2015 too.Winning the Champions League it's much more of a team effort,like Bayern evidently showed this year.

 

[Richard.H]

Se queda

 

[te amo barca]

Messi's father and Barto are supposed to meet tomorrow, let's see what happens.

 

[BBZ8800]

If he kept his 08-13 level for the last 12 years, he would be by far the greatest player ever in this sport (like a Jordan).

We expected too much from him based on what he'd achieved through 2013. I've posted in this thread that I thought he was THE GOAT in 2015 but now he's a GOAT (along with 3-4-5 other players on the same level).

Didn't you post the other day how all the GOAT tier players have 4-5 years of absolute dominance and that's it? Messi had his earlier and CR7's had his 14-18. Cruyff had his 70-74. DiStefano 55-60 and so forth. So, at the end of the day, our views really aren't all that different.

Well, yes.
We agree now.

I am not saying that Messi isn't a Goat.
But in this moment, after recent years, I would say that he is on top with Pele, Maradona etc.

In 2012, it seemed that he is way above Pele and others.
But now, after NT defeats, bad CL knockout game stats, 1 CL in 9 years, MIA in big CL away matches, his status lost some points compared to early days.

I have said that I laughed to people in 2013 when they mentioned Cr7.
But today, in 2020, it is not so funny anymore.
Messi won 1 CL in 9 years and mostly dominated in his safe zone (La liga and Camp Nou).
Cr7 managed to win 4 Cls in 5 years plus Euros.

Messi's peak was the best of all time.
But the other part of his career was not that shiny.

What pisses me off is that people get offended when you say something like this.

One of my friends is poking me for years: "Oh, another CL season? Well, it will be another MIA for Messi and an easy exit, but the next week he will bang 3 goals against Getafe on Camp Nou and his fans will rave how he is the best again"

I used to say: you are trolling.
But now, when you remove Barca's and Messi's glasses, last 5-8 years weren't that far from his trolling comments.

But our fans keep on raving about his one-man-show La liga numbers lately.
Yet, in EV's thread people said that this is the worst La liga ever and the quality is getting weaker and weaker.
On top of that, the whole team works for him and everyone are looking for him in shooting positions.
Other players don't get that privilege (except Messi and Cr7).

I am personally somewhat disappointed with the 2nd part of Messi's career and imo he has underachieved in Europe.
A part of the blame is on Barto, bad coaches, Rakitic and classical scapegoats.

But he also moved from RW to middle.
He is not listening to coaches.
He is not moving off the ball.
He is dropping deep.
He tries to dribble past 5 defenders through the middle.
He never rests.
He wants to play 90 minutes in all La liga Mickey Mouse matches.
He doesn't rest in a CDR.
He has a weak mentality and some issues when he leaves his safe zone (La liga and Camp Nou).

Cr7 was less talented.
But he overachieved based on his talent.
Yet Messi underachieved based on his natural talent.

Yes, he gave us the greatest era ever.
And thanks for that.

But my feeling is=it could and should have been more, especially in a CL, which is for me the most important trophy in the world.

 

[te amo barca]

Well, yes.
We agree now.

I am not saying that Messi isn't a Goat.
But in this moment, after recent years, I would say that he is on top with Pele, Maradona etc.

In 2012, it seemed that he is way above Pele and others.
But now, after NT defeats, bad CL knockout game stats, 1 CL in 9 years, MIA in big CL away matches, his status lost some points compared to early days.

I have said that I laughed to people in 2013 when they mentioned Cr7.
But today, in 2020, it is not so funny anymore.
Messi won 1 CL in 9 years and mostly dominated in his safe zone (La liga and Camp Nou).
Cr7 managed to win 4 Cls in 5 years plus Euros.

Messi's peak was the best of all time.
But the other part of his career was not that shiny.

What pisses me off is that people get offended when you say something like this.

One of my friends is poking me for years: "Oh, another CL season? Well, it will be another MIA for Messi and an easy exit, but the next week he will bang 3 goals against Getafe on Camp Nou and his fans will rave how he is the best again"

I used to say: you are trolling.
But now, when you remove Barca's and Messi's glasses, last 5-8 years weren't that far from his trolling comments.

But our fans keep on raving about his one-man-show La liga numbers lately.
Yet, in EV's thread people said that this is the worst La liga ever and the quality is getting weaker and weaker.
On top of that, the whole team works for him and everyone are looking for him in shooting positions.
Other players don't get that privilege (except Messi and Cr7).

I am personally somewhat disappointed with the 2nd part of Messi's career and imo he has underachieved in Europe.
A part of the blame is on Barto, bad coaches, Rakitic and classical scapegoats.

But he also moved from RW to middle.
He is not listening to coaches.
He is not moving off the ball.
He is dropping deep.
He tries to dribble past 5 defenders through the middle.
He never rests.
He wants to play 90 minutes in all La liga Mickey Mouse matches.
He doesn't rest in a CDR.
He has a weak mentality and some issues when he leaves his safe zone (La liga and Camp Nou).

Cr7 was less talented.
But he overachieved based on his talent.
Yet Messi underachieved based on his natural talent.

Yes, he gave us the greatest era ever.
And thanks for that.

But my feeling is=it could and should have bern more, especially in a CL, which is for me the most important trophy in the world.

Well summed up, that's how I feel too.

 

[mc_lovin]

Cant believe people are still invested in this debate. Its boring and shallow.

On topic: I feel terrible for saying this, but I have my heart set on him leaving. I am more excited by a fresh start than another year of Messi.

 

[TrueCule]

Messi's father and Bartomeu will meet but Bartomeu will offer him a 2-year extension and a pay rise. Maybe this will work out.

 

[te amo barca]

Cant believe people are still invested in this debate. Its boring and shallow.

On topic: I feel terrible for saying this, but I have my heart set on him leaving. I am more excited by a fresh start than another year of Messi.

I am too. Making him stay after all this is simply counterproductive at this point. Won't bear another season of him captaining the team and walking. A captain can't have that many privileges on the pitch, especially an aging one.

 

[George_Costanza]

On topic: I feel terrible for saying this, but I have my heart set on him leaving. I am more excited by a fresh start than another year of Messi.

Yes, I feel the same but also I don't want Messi to leave like this. He is a club legend and deserves better exit, so another year would be fine.

 

[Jägermeister]

Messi's father and Bartomeu will meet but Bartomeu will offer him a 2-year extension and a pay rise. Maybe this will work out.

That would be terrible imo.
Firstly, Messi already gets payed more than enough (too much imo) and secondly it cements even more his position as being totally untouchable.
I would guess in this scenario we would also keep Suarez to make Messi stay and end up with two players who dont really want to be here anymore (apart from collecting their paychecks). We might see even less effort from them and on top of that make a clear signal to all other forwards that no matter what happens, Messi and Suarez will get what they want (probably play every match). It would be demotivating to everybody else in the team, especially other forwards.

Obviously hypothetical, but Messi staying after all this doesnt really look too good to me.

 

[CatalinR10]

Yes, I feel the same but also I don't want Messi to leave like this. He is a club legend and deserves better exit, so another year would be fine.

he'll be back after 2 years for his last dance and get a proper goodbye from Barca.























































and you know it.

 

[Givenchy]

Yes, I feel the same but also I don't want Messi to leave like this. He is a club legend and deserves better exit, so another year would be fine.

another year is a disaster for both parties at this stage

Messi will have no motivation, Suarez will end up staying and be the 'saviour' who persuaded Messi to stay. Barca don't get to move on and rebuild, awkward relationship with Koeman..