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Thread: Boxing

  1. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by raskolnikov View Post
    Like vitali he's a h2h nightmare. But I feel its easy to dismiss current heavies.
    The era of wlad was weaker, or when Holmes, louis or Tyson dominated. Plus he isnt finished, lets see how it all plays out.
    Good win yesterday!
    Not even close. 70s was the stuff of dreams, 80s was good (not as good as the lower divisions with the Fab 4, but Tyson was a mega icon not like this lot), 90s to early 00s was amazing with so many top fighters.

    The late 00s was weaker true. Since Lewis retired, the division is at an all-time low. They were doing fights in Germany since nobody in the US where the big bucks are was interested.

    You got guys that look like this crowned champions. Hilarious.

    You put Lewis or Tyson in the right with this guy and they don't survive 2 rounds. And this guy beat this supposed great new champion Joshua (lol).

    Last edited by serghei; 10th October 2021 at 06:17 PM.

  2. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    They weren't 1.80. Foreman would kill Fury. Lennox would take him out in 3-4 rounds. Even prime Vitali would stop him. Fury is big, and technical for his size, but if he faces a top heavy weight from the past, it's lights out.
    Lewis got his lights put out by Oliver McCall and Rahman, plus he was very fortunate in the Klitchsko fight as that bad cut stopped the fight short and Klitschko was winning. Fury is levels above anything that McCall and Rahman has ever been, and is so physical that he could of made it awkward for Lewis.

  3. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by fergus90 View Post
    Lewis got his lights put out by Oliver McCall and Rahman, plus he was very fortunate in the Klitchsko fight as that bad cut stopped the fight short and Klitschko was winning. Fury is levels above anything that McCall and Rahman has ever been, and is so physical that he could of made it awkward for Lewis.
    Klitscho was fortunate he didn't lose his eye due to Lewis' punches. A near retirement Lewis btw.

    As for Rahman, it's well known Lewis was clowning around filming Hollywood movies at the time, and showed fat and didn't adjust to the altitude in Africa. He got caught with a big punch, but in the rematch he schooled Rahman with a boxing lesson. One of the best knockouts you'll see.

    Fury vs Lewis is a miss-match. Fury doesn't hit hard and that's a huge problem because the best fighters are not intimidated by jabs and control shots. They will make it a brawl and take your face out. Lewis takes him out early as he did with other big guys. He was a super-skilled close-range fighter with probably the best uppercut in the division's history.
    Last edited by serghei; 10th October 2021 at 06:29 PM.

  4. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Klitscho was fortunate he didn't lose his eye due to Lewis' punches. A near retirement Lewis btw.

    As for Rahman, it's well known Lewis was clowning around filming Hollywood movies at the time, and showed fat and didn't adjust to the altitude in Africa. He got caught with a big punch, but in the rematch he schooled Rahman with a boxing lesson. One of the best knockouts you'll see.

    Fury vs Lewis is a miss-match. Fury doesn't hit hard and that's a huge problem because the best fighters are not intimidated by jabs and control shots. They will make it a brawl and take your face out. Lewis takes him out early as he did with other big guys. He was a super-skilled close-range fighter with probably the best uppercut in the division's history.
    Lewis and Klitschko were both hurting eachother though, it wasn't like Lewis systematically broke him down. In fact Lewis uppercutted Klitschko with a wrecked eye and it didn't phase Klitschko none. Before the doctor stoppage Klitschko was ahead on all three cards.

    I'm a big fan of Lewis by the way, but I also don't think Fury would have been and easy fight and I also strongly disagree Fury doesn't hit hard. Now he's with Sugar Hill he's much more vicious. Granted when he came through with his uncle he adopted a more cautious approach but he clearly has punch power.

  5. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by fergus90 View Post
    Lewis and Klitschko were both hurting eachother though, it wasn't like Lewis systematically broke him down. In fact Lewis uppercutted Klitschko with a wrecked eye and it didn't phase Klitschko none. Before the stoppage Klitschko was ahead on all three cards.

    I'm a big fan of Lewis by the way, but I also don't think Fury would have been and easy fight and I also strongly disagree Fury doesn't hit hard. Now he's with Sugar Hill he's much more vicious. Granted when he came through with his uncle he adopted a more cautious approach but he clearly has punch power.
    Yea, they were hurting each other, which kind of disproves the glass-jaw theory that goes around concerning Lennox. He ate some big shots, but also threw bombs as well. So... it was a matter of ruggedness. Lewis made the match a survival-type, extremely bloody and tough, with some big blows like in few modern fights. And it was too much for Vitali, even though he had heart, he was in really bad shape at the end of it, and it was just half the match.

    For the match-up, I think Lewis sees that Fury is technical, and can box, and is doing his best to not let the match go to the scorecard. I think an early KO is on the cards, or a late one, or even a stoppage due to cuts like the Vitali match. Lennox hit really hard both from long range, and also from up close, and with combinations. The thing with Lennox is he could box in many ways. Fury is cautious, but he can't avoid the fight vs Lewis and doesn't have the power to make Lewis worried. This did happen, Lewis would also be cautious, but only used this approach against fighters whose power he feared. Guys who could knock him out with one punch.

    Yea, I'm partial to Lennox anyway, the biggest fighter I saw fight live, even though it was late in his career. IMO, he could box like Fury (Tua fight), but also had a dimension of brute power where he just finished off fighters early. He could totally do that if he felt he was dealing with someone he could not outbox safely. And Fury is like that, he can box, but I don't think he can survive vs Lewis in a really tough and bloody fight.

    Fury will make easy meals of the current lot in my opinion. Maybe Joshua has a chance, but he's robotic as hell. Predictable, and technique-wise, he's miles form being a top fighter. I can see Fury boxing Joshua to a clear decision. He's way too talented, and there's not a single fighter out there who can make the match a brawl. But that still doesn't make him that impressive skill-wise compared with past greats. I think prime Vitali beats Fury.
    Last edited by serghei; 10th October 2021 at 07:07 PM.

  6. #441
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    There's also 2 ways of looking at it.

    One is greatness relative to the contemporaries (with the level of the contemporaries also being factored in), and the other is H2H across eras.

    Fury wouldn't make the cut (as of now) in the former but in the latter, he loses to who? Lewis? Vitaly? Maybe Foreman (he was huge for his day but still "only" like 6'3 and 225ish)? The likes of Sonny Liston or Ali or Holyfield or Tyson are too small IMO.

    He's just too much of a dancing bear at 6'9 and 275-295.

  7. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    There's also 2 ways of looking at it.

    One is greatness relative to the contemporaries (with the level of the contemporaries also being factored in), and the other is H2H across eras.

    Fury wouldn't make the cut (as of now) in the former but in the latter, he loses to who? Lewis? Vitaly? Maybe Foreman (he was huge for his day but still "only" like 6'3 and 225ish)? The likes of Sonny Liston or Ali or Holyfield or Tyson are too small IMO.

    He's just too much of a dancing bear at 6'9 and 275-295.
    Fury is technical and talented, but he doesn't have the punching power to match his size. Plus, he could be outboxed as well, especially by smaller boxers who throw more punches.

    The way I see it:

    Ali would outbox him. No doubt in my mind, would win a very wide UD. Holmes too. Nobody wins a boxing match vs Ali on points. You have to knock him out. Fury can't do it. Not enough brute power. Technique-wise, Fury is great, but Ali is the most technical boxer of all time, and his jaw was granite. Actually, I think Ali is one of the worst match-ups for Fury. Fury is big, but he doesn't know how to use that and turn it into power. He uses his superior height and reach for technical purposes, especially for defensive exploits. That doesn't help him against superior technical fighters, and also not against exceptional close-range fighters.

    It may seem like Tyson is a good match-up for Fury, but still, whenever he gets inside, the potential of a KO looms large. Fury is not a very good fighter on the inside. He's all about keeping control with his range. This works against Tyson up to a point. Hollyfield beats him too, even more probably than Tyson. You just don't knock out Holly, and the man threw so many punches... very difficult combination of warrior mentality, toughness, natural great genes (boosted with the magic of roids ), technique.

    I'd have Fury exposed vs elite boxers from all three areas: big, strong puncher-boxers like Lewis (worst match-up, because he's like Fury with more weapons of choice and much more power), more technical fighters than him, even if smaller (Like Ali, or even Hollyfield, due to not enough KO power from Fury, not that it helps much since they are famous iron-jaws), and close-range monsters like Tyson.

    He does great vs big guys that can't box very well (Joshua possibly, but even he a KO is on the cards for Joshua). I think he has a decent shot vs Foreman out of the elite fighters due to Foreman being more robotic and not as much of a boxer, although it's hard to know how good Fury's chin is (probably Foreman KOs him if he catches him well). Or smaller fighters who are not exceptional boxers (so no Ali, Hollyfield class).
    Last edited by serghei; 10th October 2021 at 07:33 PM.

  8. #443
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    Tyson Fury to donate entire ?8m purse to the homeless after incredible Deontay Wilder fight!

    He said recently ?I don?t really have much use for it, I?m not interested in becoming a millionaire, I?m going to give it to the poor and I?m going to build homes for the homeless"