Daniele
Member
Because it is crucial for a team that "build his game from below".
you practically gain a man in setting and your build becomes much smoother and full of solutions.
It's not an option, but fundamental for many coaches
1 - Marc-Andre ter Ansplant
- Thread starter kaddel11
- Start date
Because it is crucial for a team that "build his game from below".
you practically gain a man in setting and your build becomes much smoother and full of solutions.
It's not an option, but fundamental for many coaches
malvolio
Senior Member
yeah, while barcaforum's new found love, gianluigi donnarumma, was shit all tournament in his distribution. but hey, can't argue with over-generalization i guess
Absolutely. But it's not 2006 anymore. Many more goalkeepers have built competence at playing out from the back and most teams play that way these days.
Goalkeepers like Courtois and Oblak, who had the basics of excellence in goalkeeping have worked hard to add competence in their footwork.
I don't think Real Madrid play much difference to ourselves in terms of buildup from the back.
So in this example, getting a goalkeeper who excels in shotstopping, command of the area and high balls and trainong their footwork can be better than getting one who is good with their feet but a 6/7 out of 10 at the rest of his game.
Anyways, Stegen is a top bracket goalkeeper who has been removed from his top level for a prolonged period. I think it's down to injuries restricting his movement and getting a bit too relaxed in his training (refusing a change of goalkeeping coach for example).
Not a change for this summer, but a situation to monitor.
fergus90
Senior Member
yeah, while barcaforum's new found love, gianluigi donnarumma, was shit all tournament in his distribution. but hey, can't argue with over-generalization i guess
If this was a discussion back in 2009 I'd agree that it's a commodity for a goalkeeper to be good with their feet especially because of how Barca played. But Barca's build up these last few years really is nothing special, in fact it can be outright pedestrian.
The build up from the back is done by so many teams now. Anyway, we best not debate goalkeepers again after the Emiliano Martinez episode had we.
malvolio
Senior Member
make up your mind then. either it's 2021 and every GK around is good with its feet(which is not true) or it's the fact that barca no longer build from the back(also not true)?
it seems to me that you're just throwing some words out there without any logic and then you try to steer the discussion in 'emiliano martinez's performance at copa america' territory(which was not the subject).
fergus90
Senior Member
It definitely is 2021, checked the calender so I can confirm that for you. Also have a re-read, where did i say Barca no longer build up from the back?
I'm saying a lot of teams build up from the back, which is true. Keepers use their feet much more these days than just smashing long balls upfield to a big target man.
Ter Stegen is here to stay anyway, so you can be happy and the rest of the people that rate him too.
JohnN
Senior Member
Perhaps he isn't the first one that should go, but I believe he actually should, if a good replacement is found. All the trashings and humiliations have broken him. You can't see the confidence any more. The thing is, we have other priorities, no money and no better available replacement, so it is what it is.
Bobo32
Senior Member
Yeah, it would be interesting if focus then were on the good replacement, instead of just demanding to get rid of him.
Very silly level too here, counting "goals conceded in big games" as if this was primarily due to the goalie.
Apart from Messi and Busquets, everyone is replacable, but to replace usually costs money and is always a big risk as well.
We have talked about Martinez lately and also Donnarumma, who gave Spain three or four of their best chances in the semis directly with his poor feet. Not even in the 90s did you see keepers as dangerously insecure with their feet. Also, why does he leave Milan, and what does it tell you about his personality?
serghei
Senior Member
[MENTION=22060]fergus90[/MENTION] is spot on about the footwork of keepers these days being, not a standout feat to brag with, but a given. Every top keeper is at least competent in making the standard passes routinely. You don't need more than that, what you need is leadership, the ability to inspire confidence by organizing the defense properly, catching or deflecting crosses that land near your 6m box (keepers' space as it's known in football) - rather than staying like a rooted on the goal line and, most importantly, stopping shots that aren't placed very well rather than freezing or having a delayed reaction.
Not to mention that Stegen is famous for trying to get too cute with passes only to gift the ball to the opposition. In the Bayern game, I counted at least 5 great passes to Bayern players or to Barca players being pressured by a Bayern counterpart.
Not to mention that Stegen is famous for trying to get too cute with passes only to gift the ball to the opposition. In the Bayern game, I counted at least 5 great passes to Bayern players or to Barca players being pressured by a Bayern counterpart.
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Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
The pass ability was always overrated, i mean there are goalkeepers who scores freekicks and we celebrate if a GK make a 5 yard pass.
Bobo32
Senior Member
Apart from Donnarumma maybe.
There are four rough levels of keepers feet
1. Bad and insecure
2. Bad and secure
3. Good and insecure
4. Good and secure
Most modern keepers are in #2, which mean they can pass to a completely free CB, or roughly find a wing back with a lofted pass when not pressed, otherwise he bangs it as far as possible, or towards a space.
Quite a few are #3, then some teams think it's a risk worth to pay in order to be able to use him actively in build-up. Barcelona was like this with Valdes.
ter Stegen is as close as a 4 I've seen, sure he has made some errors but they are very few. He plays very elegantly and almost like a midfielder in his timing and vision.
What is REALLY striking is a keeper like Donnarumma, who is bad with the feet, still gifting the ball in that very insecure way in a game like vs Spain. He looked like a #1 there, and that's not so common.
I think Barcelona should build around controlling the ball, so I think they should always look for a 3/4. Of course, under Valverde, or with no manager, or with players like Depay, Wijnaldum, Kessie, Araujo etc, then you can't reliably build from the back or control the ball, then you may as well play with someone who hoofs it. But then there are so many players that needs being switched, like Alba, Busquets or even Messi - and I know there are posters here who can't wait for it.
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