Ronald Koeman

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vegitot

Senior Member
Birdy said:
LOL
Someone thinking that having Griezman was a plus
when the guy was making us play with 10 men in attack and couldn't fit any position

Dude, remove your bias glasses. That 4month spell we simply played better football.
Xavi had a purple patch of 2 months from Feb'22 to March '22 until the 0-4 at Bernabeu.
Other than that, the team is not evolving and our way of playing sucks
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Griezmann was good in that season. I don't think Koeman made the team played better football. Just he had Messi and Griezmann.

Not saying Xavi plays the beautiful one now. Though he has better squad now, but he doesn't have any talisman like Messi or even Griezmann.

If Xavi were the coach of 20/21 season, i think he would do better than Koeman. If Koeman were the coach of current season, i don't think he can do the same as Xavi now.
 
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jamrock

Senior Member
ajnotkeith said:
Messi has gone to PSG and they are doing even worse then they were before so I don't even know if having him is some huge upside that people claim (in his later years obviously).

He left Barca, we went from 3rd place to 2nd despite having a weaker squad and poor summer transfer window. He went to PSG and they got knocked out r16, this season finishing 2nd in their CL group and barely leading Ligue 1 right now.

Obviously he is a great player but I don't think if we had him he would make our results significantly better.
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He left & we went from finishing 7 points behind to 13.

Can flip stats & facts whichever to suit the argument you're trying to put forth.

From 79 points in 3rd.
To 73 points in "2nd".

That's some Jamdav level of spin you just tried there. Lol.
 
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vegitot

Senior Member
And not saying Messi would make the current team result much better but surely play much better, more "Barca way". More through balls, more tiki taka goals, more short pass build up... Even Griezmann would do these things for Xavi. I'm sure Xavi would love to have Cardioman.
 
Birdy

Birdy

Senior Member
vegitot said:
And not saying Messi would make the current team result much better but surely play much better, more "Barca way". More through balls, more tiki taka goals, more short pass build up... Even Griezmann would do these things for Xavi. I'm sure Xavi would love to have Cardioman.
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Dude, please!
Cardioman can't do any of the tiki taka things you dream for his life.
Guy only fits as a '10' in ultra defensive 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 systems like France and Atleti, and his best trait is his tracking back, and taking rebounds in the box

He was a nightmare for Barca way of playing, and citing goals and assist he had that season is cheating to say the least
He was wasting countless chances, let alone the work he wasN'T doing in producing chances
Xavi would absolutely hate to have him. There is no position for him, and we don't play the football that suits his meager skill set

This is an awful revisionism
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
Nah Griezmann was good in that season just not worth the costs.

33 goals/assists in 51 games. Best player in one trophy won and one of hardest working players in team.

Ignore those stats when convenient though.. same folk who used to want Braithwaite to play and claimed he was better.

Usual.

Folk just burp out same thing regardless.

Correct to sell him though as costs too high.

Better season than likes of Dembele has had and I like Dembele for what he brings on form.
 
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ajnotkeith

Senior Member
jamrock said:
He left & we went from finishing 7 points behind to 13.

Can flip stats & facts whichever to suit the argument you're trying to put forth.

From 79 points in 3rd.
To 73 points in "2nd".

That's some Jamdav level of spin you just tried there. Lol.
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The fact the difference is only 6 points when not only did we lose him, we lost multiple other players, and started the season in chaos, doesn't make the point you think it makes. That shows that he pretty much didn't have an impact at all on team's results and difference without him is minimal.

Would rather save 50m a year and invest that in other players instead of a 35 year old Messi who as you stated with your 'flipped facts' only causes a 6 point difference.

If you want to equate the loss of Messi to a 6 point difference be my guest as it just makes the decision by Laporta look even better.
 
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DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
ajnotkeith said:
The fact the difference is only 6 points when not only did we lose him, we lost multiple other players, and started the season in chaos, doesn't make the point you think it makes. That shows that he pretty much didn't have an impact at all on team's results and difference without him is minimal.

Would rather save 50m a year and invest that in other players instead of a 35 year old Messi who as you stated only causes a 6 point difference,

If you want to equate the loss of Messi to a 6 point difference be my guest as it just makes the decision by Laporta look even better.
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As long as that's not invested in Ferran Torres type of players you mean :lol:
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
Koeman should have gone in summer when they undermined him.

Then he had to deal with not only being a dead man walking but the board lying to him about Messi.. the player the team was built around.

Losing Messi/Griezmann, coach being undermined and having injuries to Pedri and Dembele all contributed and not situation Xavi had to deal with in same way at all.
 
DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Koeman was never going to work anyway, but yes they should have gotten rid of him that summer. The way Laporta handled the entire situation was not only amateurish but also disrespectful to Koeman.

Jury's still out on Xavi.
 
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ajnotkeith

Senior Member
vegitot said:
By your logic, he moved to PSG and they won Ligue 1 last season after lost it in 20/21. Tell me which one is worse.

Barca moved from 3rd to 2nd, from Copa Del Rey to empty hand, R016 UCL to out of group stage. Tell me which one is worse.
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Of course Barca losing Messi was a big shock, as we have built our teams around him for decades. The season after we lost him was always going to be the most difficult and yes we got worse (temporarily), but we still managed to finish 2nd.

Not saying he isn't a great player but neither would he make our team so much better like people are saying, he comes with negatives as well as positives in his later years, of course.
 
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JamDav1982

Senior Member
There are different sides to the argument.

Losing Messi at end of summer as board lied and then being in situation that have no money to replace him is not what can really compare fairly on.

Also Griezmann was by far the second best attacker when Messi left.. and he went also. Then have to factor in situation with Koeman at start of season etc also.

What if Barca win league this year and won it two years within him leaving when didnt win it in previous two years with him there? That mean better of without him?

Can all be argued either way.

Personally I think it was best for Barca AND Messi he moved on.
 
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ajnotkeith

Senior Member
JamDav1982 said:
There are different sides to the argument.

Losing Messi at end of summer as board lied and then being in situation that have no money to replace him is not what can really compare fairly on.

Also Griezmann was by far the second best attacker when Messi left.. and he went also. Then have to factor in situation with Koeman at start of season etc also.

What if Barca win league this year and won it two years within him leaving when didnt win it in previous two years with him there? That mean better of without him?

Can all be argued either way.
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Even withstanding all those circumstances Barca still managed to finish 2nd despite horrible performance in Europe, and playing an awful lineup for first dozen games or so.

Then if we win the league now whilst having his big wage off the books it's hard to argue against that having been the right decision considering his age also and our financial circumstance.

Overall I find it difficult to argue letting him go at 34 whilst he was on huge wages was a bad decision considering we are still challenging for the league without him (in spite of having to pull some levers).
 
Bobo32

Bobo32

Senior Member
ajnotkeith said:
Of course Barca losing Messi was a big shock, as we have built our teams around him for decades. The season after we lost him was always going to be the most difficult and yes we got worse (temporarily), but we still managed to finish 2nd.

Not saying he isn't a great player but neither would he make our team so much better like people are saying, he comes with negatives as well as positives in his later years, of course.
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All players have their negatives, even young Messi, but I cannot respect this opinion.
 
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