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Thread: Ronald Koeman

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Not with a caretaker manager imo. Only sack him if Xavi comes in. Kiss the hopes of hiring Pep, Klopp, Tuchel class goodbye. Pipe dream if I ever saw one.

    It's Koeman gone in the summer most likely and then we have road A, and road B realistically. Road A is another appointment of some dude with experience but a modest vision (check Koeman, check Valverde). Road B is an unproven manager but one that shows the promise of everything a top manager brings.

    It's road B. Road C, which is the ideal naming of a world-class manager is off the table for us. Nobody leaves a better team to join Barca at this point. And class managers don't float around unemployed.
    Xavi is not road B
    road B is someone like Ten Haag who has shown promise with his work the last 5 years at a decent level of competition in Europe

    Xavi, Pimienta, and all the other Barca-DNA home-grown wanna be coaches, are road D: unproven and not any promise whatsoever.
    Hence a certain failure, unless you happen by accident to find the best coaching mind of the next 20 years (Pep)
    which practically happens once in 100 years or so
    1992

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdy View Post
    Xavi is not road B
    road B is someone like Ten Haag who has shown promise with his work the last 5 years at a decent level of competition in Europe

    Xavi, Pimienta, and all the other Barca-DNA home-grown wanna be coaches, are road D: unproven and not any promise whatsoever.
    Hence a certain failure, unless you happen by accident to find the best coaching mind of the next 20 years (Pep)
    which practically happens once in 100 years or so
    Why not any promise? Because they are unproven. What a circular argument... Pep in 2008 would be like that as well according to you. Unproven = shit.

    Ten Haag would be a good option too. But I prefer Xavi, less experience obviously, but IMO higher potential.

    Everything bad you say about Xavi comes down to not being proven enough. Which is not a great argument. Most new wave managers are unproven before they prove themselves. Barca are now an empty vessel where players and managers can PROVE themselves and we need to find that sort of quality.

    We don't have time to waste now. Next season we should start with a manager who has an idea about what we have to play. You have to see some progress even though results won't be great at first.
    Last edited by serghei; 16th September 2021 at 09:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Why not any promise? Because they are unproven. What a circular argument... Pep in 2008 would be like that as well according to you. Unproven = shit.

    Ten Haag would be a good option too. But I prefer Xavi, less experience obviously, but IMO higher potential.
    Pep doesnt back up the Xavi argument at all. No more than any unproven coach that failed.

    Xavi would be a gamble that has not proven anything within the club as a coach. May be that is a choice they take but have to see it for what it is an no relevance at all to Pep.

    There is nothing to suggest he has higher potential than Ten Haag other than hope.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Pep doesnt back up the Xavi argument at all. No more than any unproven coach that failed.

    Xavi would be a gamble that has not proven anything within the club as a coach. May be that is a choice they take but have to see it for what it is an no relevance at all to Pep.

    There is nothing to suggest he has higher potential than Ten Haag other than hope.
    His career as a player and his nearly unparalleled influence. The most cerebral player in that team, the one responsible for organizing the whole midfield structure. One that worked under one of the greatest managers for years. Watch his interviews about tactics and possession. He has all the tools to be the next world-class manager.

    He's not some nobody .

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    So we sack Koeman, lose quite serious money to have Pimienta for a few months. No point imo.
    Absolutely. Pimienta was sacked in the summer so I was just joking about that.

    I agree though that if Koeman goes now, then we should look at a long term option. Conte would be fine stopgap if we didn't have the Catalan quartet. But even so, we have had a run of stop gaps with no sporting project and look where that got us.

    So from where we stand right now, with the youth core to develop I don't think we would be much worse come the end of the season by having Xavi now or even Xabi. It is not like we were winning the big games with Messi last year.
    FCB11

    ----Long ball to Martens----
    Pass left to Martens-Pass forward to Martens-Left foot to Martens
    Pass back to Martens-------------------------------Cut back to Martens
    ----Through Ball to Martens -----
    ---Ignore shot and pass to Martens---Backheel to Martens---
    ----I am Martens----1-2 with Martens----

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    Quote Originally Posted by Porque View Post
    Absolutely. Pimienta was sacked in the summer so I was just joking about that.

    I agree though that if Koeman goes now, then we should look at a long term option. Conte would be fine stopgap if we didn't have the Catalan quartet. But even so, we have had a run of stop gaps with no sporting project and look where that got us.

    So from where we stand right now, with the youth core to develop I don't think we would be much worse come the end of the season by having Xavi now or even Xabi. It is not like we were winning the big games with Messi last year.
    I know.

    Yea, no stopgaps. There's no long-term benefit of a stopgap, and our aim is long-term. This is only feasible when you have important short-term goals that you can grab (like big titles). Like EV's first 2 seasons, that's a good stop-gap type appointment.

    Past that now. Pick a manager and see the trajectory of the team over 16-18 months. You have to see progress, an idea of play. If it's not there, the manager is not good enough. But you can do this research prior to naming a manager. Talk with the managers. Like a job interview. See what his vision is. This is why it's important for presidents to know some football too. Bartomeu was a complete dud who had no clue about the game. No wonder he hired other duds to work in his team.
    Last edited by serghei; 16th September 2021 at 09:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    His career as a player and his nearly unparalleled influence. The most cerebral player in that team, the one responsible for organizing the whole midfield structure. One that worked under one of the greatest managers for years. Watch his interviews about tactics and possession. He has all the tools to be the next world-class manager.

    He's not some nobody .
    Plenty of leaders and player in top teams fail.

    Same idea you have got Pirlo the job at Juve. Teams thinking they have the next Pep in their ranks.

    You are going massively over the top to suggest 'has all the tools to be next world class coach' based on next to nothing about what has made the current top coaches.

    Have heard him praise Busi to the full in recent years, say Sari has Barca DNA etc, say likes of Mane is not a Barca type player. Can hear what want to hear but it is a gamble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Plenty of leaders and player in top teams fail.

    Same idea you have got Pirlo the job at Juve. Teams thinking they have the next Pep in their ranks.

    You are going massively over the top to suggest 'has all the tools to be next world class coach' based on next to nothing about what has made the current top coaches.

    Have heard him praise Busi to the full in recent years, say Sari has Barca DNA etc, say likes of Mane is not a Barca type player. Can hear what want to hear but it is a gamble.
    It's a gamble, sure. Unproven managers are gambles. Most fail. Some are great hits. After 3 appointments of boring B or C level managers with plenty of experience, I'd take a gamble with a huge upside potential.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    It's a gamble, sure. Unproven managers are gambles. Most fail. Some are great hits. After 3 appointments of boring B or C level managers with plenty of experience, I'd take a gamble with a huge upside potential.
    That is the point is it may be worth the gamble when there is so little options of anyone proven but plenty of clubs have put in young coaches who have great ideas, club legends, played under top coaches and it falls flat as well.

    Xavi shouldnt take job now anyway. He may get one crack at that job and worst possible time and if he did not certain he would be moving on likes of Busi any time soon and would just be latest to think still a top player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    That is the point is it may be worth the gamble when there is so little options of anyone proven but plenty of clubs have put in young coaches who have great ideas, club legends, played under top coaches and it falls flat as well.

    Xavi shouldnt take job now anyway. He may get one crack at that job and worst possible time and if he did not certain he would be moving on likes of Busi any time soon and would just be latest to think still a top player.
    I think we should stop using what some X or Y says publicly. Lots of PR reasons why people would say some things to the press.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    I think we should stop using what some X or Y says publicly. Lots of PR reasons why people would say some things to the press.
    Dont agree his praise of Busi and Pique etc was just PR or saying likes of Mane would not be a Barca profile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Why not any promise? Because they are unproven. What a circular argument... Pep in 2008 would be like that as well according to you. Unproven = shit.

    Ten Haag would be a good option too. But I prefer Xavi, less experience obviously, but IMO higher potential.

    Everything bad you say about Xavi comes down to not being proven enough. Which is not a great argument. Most new wave managers are unproven before they prove themselves. Barca are now an empty vessel where players and managers can PROVE themselves and we need to find that sort of quality.

    We don't have time to waste now. Next season we should start with a manager who has an idea about what we have to play. You have to see some progress even though results won't be great at first.
    I have explained it like 20 thousand times already, but you keep repeating the same lines that have been answered many times

    It's not circular
    factor A: Proved track record
    Xavi gets 0 there

    factor b: Promise
    Xavi gets 0 there as well, since he is coaching in Qatar, where he fails miserably in the Asian CL
    Promise is shown at a certain threshold level compared to the top
    Not at any below zero level of football one can coach

    Now, you don't get it about the interviews.
    They show something, but it's not what you want.
    They show that Xavi is NOT getting modern football
    "Pogba not technical enough"
    "Mane not Barca-level player"
    "Busi the best DM around in 2020"

    Red flags all over

    Finally, there are more reasons that have to do with his ambition and his entitlement

    All in all, Xavi is as good a bet as is Pimienta. Worlds apart from a calculated bet based on evidence like Ten Haag

    The fact that he was a WC player won't cut it for you to push the agenda
    1992

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    How about you watch some of those videos showing passing triangles, pass and move, everything we should be doing but we aren't. That's a promising modern manager. But why do I even bother?

    Oh, he praised one of his old pals from his Barca days so that means he 100% will play Busi if he's the next manager . Pep praises everybody to high-heavens. Means jack shit.
    Last edited by serghei; 16th September 2021 at 10:49 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    How about you watch some of those videos showing passing triangles, pass and move, everything we should be doing but we aren't. That's a promising modern manager. But why do I even bother?

    Oh, he praised one of his old pals from his Barca days so that means he 100% will play Busi if he's the next manager . Pep praises everybody to high-heavens. Means jack shit.
    He will play him day in, day out.
    That's not PR, it was part of an interview on tactics

    As for the triangles, who gives a fuck about triangles in the league of.... Qatar? Really...
    If he coaches a Dortmund or a Villareal or a Roma and manages to have even minimal success playing like that, let's talk again
    1992

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdy View Post
    He will play him day in, day out.
    That's not PR, it was part of an interview on tactics

    As for the triangles, who gives a fuck about triangles in the league of.... Qatar? Really...
    If he coaches a Dortmund or a Villareal or a Roma and manages to have even minimal success playing like that, let's talk again
    Yea, exactly as I thought. So basically all your arguments stand on one pillar. He doesn't have experience. I agree with you, he doesn't have experience managing in top leagues. Glad we could sort it out.

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