1 - Victor Valdes

khaled_a_d said:

Valdes was never the most mentally stable person, so I won't jump to conclusions quick.
Not a good look anyway.

Click to expand...

Well noted.

Also, very fishy having such a person working with kids. As a father, I dont know, it just rubs me the wrong way.

After reading some of the stuff, even by people who are very critical of this board(like https://twitter.com/josepcapdevila) and follow La Masia closely, I would say this is a good riddance.

As much as I like Victor, as history tends to tell, this guy is his own worst enemy.

Leo_Messi said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the system if you are referring to the system of governance of Barça as an institution. Nothing better than socios owning a football club and democratically electing other socios who can always be removed and who are judged on the success they bring to the club. 1 billion times better than the ownership and workings of other top clubs in Europe.

The problem is that the current board is one of the most incompetent in history.

As for this recent fallout between Valdés and Kluivert, there were reports of sporting disagreements earlier and Valdés made the cardinal sin (for the current rapidly anti-Cruyff and incompetent parasites running the club) of repeatedly praising Cruyff's sporting legacy and indirectly criticizing the runnings of the current board.

If Valdés walks away, I can see him eventually returning under a new board, and if him leaving and spilling some beans and further compromising the current board, will help further disgrace the current board, it is good news. The more institutional disasters (as long as they won't have a big say on how the first team performs) before the 2021 elections, the better.

Click to expand...

The problem is that the current board is one of the most incompetent in history.

No, I don't think so.
This club has always been a lot more prone to have political corruption and poor, incompetent boards compared to other big clubs.
The main reason for this is due to the socio system.
Rosell and Bartomeu are not the exceptions.
Cruyff, Laporta (The guy who was Cruyff's friend or who cleverly used Cruyff for his own good) and Pep are the exceptions.
It's no coincidence that this club achieved the best success during that time.
There have been plenty of Rosell and Bartomeu in Barça's history.
Due to the voting system in which a president is elected by socios, they tend to choose a candidate that meets their benefits rather than the club's footballing success.
Barça also has a unique political position and influence in Catalonia that surpasses far beyond the typical city sports teams.
This makes the socio system more prone to be misused and corrupted by businessmen and politicians in power.
For them, Barça is nothing more than a tool to further their business and political influence.
The only advantage of the socio system is that it can prevent incompetent president+board from maintaining a long-term power regime for more than a decade so the club doesn't end up like Milan 2.0.

Just remember in 10 years that Valdes had a a big impact on nurturing Ansu GOAT Fati

tacticvarium said:

The problem is that the current board is one of the most incompetent in history.

No, I don't think so.
This club has always been a lot more prone to have political corruption and poor, incompetent boards compared to other big clubs.
The main reason for this is due to the socio system.
Rosell and Bartomeu are not the exceptions.
Cruyff, Laporta (The guy who was Cruyff's friend or who cleverly used Cruyff for his own good) and Pep are the exceptions.
It's no coincidence that this club achieved the best success during that time.
There have been plenty of Rosell and Bartomeu in Barça's history.
Due to the voting system in which a president is elected by socios, they tend to choose a candidate that meets their benefits rather than the club's footballing success.
Barça also has a unique political position and influence in Catalonia that surpasses far beyond the typical city sports teams.
This makes the socio system more prone to be misused and corrupted by businessmen and politicians in power.
For them, Barça is nothing more than a tool to further their business and political influence.
The only advantage of the socio system is that it can prevent incompetent president+board from maintaining a long-term power regime for more than a decade so the club doesn't end up like Milan 2.0.

Click to expand...

Yes, that is exactly why Barça and RM are the two most successful and admired clubs in the world. Both with the exact same institutional weaknesses and strengths. That also happen to be the two richest clubs in the world.

To begin with there is no flawless or perfect system of governance in place. Democracy is not known as the best of the worst political systems available for no reason.

What political corruption are you talking about and in what universe is that comparable to the runnings of privately owned clubs, often by 1000 times more dubious personalities in the form of oligarchs, businessmen, Arab sheikhs etc.?

You don't seem too familiar with the club statutes. Go read up on them.

Which benefits do you think that I can get by voting for Cardoner in 2021 or Font or Laporta or whatever candidate decides to run? Socios are voting for the candidate that they believe will serve the club the best way. Similar to how voters vote in democratic countries with everything this entails of false promises, hot air, broken election promises etc.

Barça is indeed an outlet for mostly influential people but that is not exclusive to Barça but any prestigious position in the society.

Since Josep Lluís Núñez (one of the greatest club presidents in football history) took power in 1978, the club has been run by very competent people for a duration of almost 30 years. That is a pretty damn good statistic. The club's enormous success (not just the football section) speaks for itself as well.

Yes, that is the "sole" advantage.

Barça should be owned by some scummy oligarch sitting in Russia or China or a dictatorial Arab family who are only in it to gain money and goodwill and who have no sentiments, sense of responsibility or history towards the clubs that they own. Or owners like the Glazers who could care less about the club that they own other than earning money through their ownership.

Give me Barça's model every day of the week over the alternatives.

Anyway we are off-topic but could not ignore your post as I am fundamentally opposed to your opinion.

DonAK said:

After reading some of the stuff, even by people who are very critical of this board(like https://twitter.com/josepcapdevila) and follow La Masia closely, I would say this is a good riddance.

Click to expand...

The article of Polo and Sans in MD alluding to the same things

https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futb...7802011617/barca-valdes-kluivert-juvenil.html

alludes to the same things. Gives another perspective that is hardly in favor of Valdés. Hard to know how much of that information is 100% genuine. What is certain is that there are serious disagreements with his decisions.

Not wanting to use the 4-3-3 formation, Ilaix Moriba being left out against Inter, 3 subs after the first half, including the substitution of Konrad de la Fuente who was our best player (apparently, did not watch the game), not using players who have trained or travelled with Barça B etc.

Anyway Valdés always had a strong personality and his own ways. Can't see this ending well for him unless him and Bartomeu figure something out and both become more flexible, in particular Valdés.

Valdes obviously isn't the most stable person. But at least he isn't a puppet.

Leo_Messi said:

Yes, that is exactly why Barça and RM are the two most successful and admired clubs in the world. Both with the exact same institutional weaknesses and strengths. That also happen to be the two richest clubs in the world.

To begin with there is no flawless or perfect system of governance in place. Democracy is not known as the best of the worst political systems available for no reason.

What political corruption are you talking about and in what universe is that comparable to the runnings of privately owned clubs, often by 1000 times more dubious personalities in the form of oligarchs, businessmen, Arab sheikhs etc.?

You don't seem too familiar with the club statutes. Go read up on them.

Which benefits do you think that I can get by voting for Cardoner in 2021 or Font or Laporta or whatever candidate decides to run? Socios are voting for the candidate that they believe will serve the club the best way. Similar to how voters vote in democratic countries with everything this entails of false promises, hot air, broken election promises etc.

Barça is indeed an outlet for mostly influential people but that is not exclusive to Barça but any prestigious position in the society.

Since Josep Lluís Núñez (one of the greatest club presidents in football history) took power in 1978, the club has been run by very competent people for a duration of almost 30 years. That is a pretty damn good statistic. The club's enormous success (not just the football section) speaks for itself as well.

Yes, that is the "sole" advantage.

Barça should be owned by some scummy oligarch sitting in Russia or China or a dictatorial Arab family who are only in it to gain money and goodwill and who have no sentiments, sense of responsibility or history towards the clubs that they own. Or owners like the Glazers who could care less about the club that they own other than earning money through their ownership.

Give me Barça's model every day of the week over the alternatives.

Anyway we are off-topic but could not ignore your post as I am fundamentally opposed to your opinion.

Click to expand...

Not sure who is the one that needs some extra readings when you are not familiar with all those political corruptions related to this club in Catalonia.
Plus, Barça only began to establish itself as a big club from the Cruyffian era when he returned and started all the revolution to change the whole philosophy and structure within the club. And it was the only early 2000s that Barça was starting to become among the super clubs. These recent footballing and financial success has also nothing to do with the socio system at all. It was only due to the presence of Cruyff & his philosophy, Pep and lucky Golden generation.
And OMG No, Barça did NOT have competent boards for 30 years since Núñez at all..
Are we really talking about the same club here?
Anyway, this is off-topic as it was mentioned and it is also meaningless to discuss this since the system won't be changed.

tacticvarium said:

Not sure who is the one that needs some extra readings when you are not familiar with all those political corruptions related to this club in Catalonia.
Plus, Barça only began to establish itself as a big club from the Cruyffian era when he returned and started all the revolution to change the whole philosophy and structure within the club. And it was the only early 2000s that Barça was starting to become among the super clubs. These recent footballing and financial success has also nothing to do with the socio system at all. It was only due to the presence of Cruyff & his philosophy, Pep and lucky Golden generation.
And OMG No, Barça did NOT have competent boards for 30 years since Núñez at all..
Are we really talking about the same club here?
Anyway, this is off-topic as it was mentioned and it is also meaningless to discuss this since the system won't be changed.

Click to expand...

Mention a single 'political corruption' case in recent contemporary history related to the club finances or otherwise having a direct involvement to the runnings of the club. The "corruption cases" that occurred in the past were not directly related to Barça or the institutional system in place but rather INDIVIDUAL actions committed in their capacity as private persons. Always with grave consequences for those individuals involved. No need to mention the fates of Núñez and Rosell for instance.
Not the same thing at all. Once again you should read up on the club statutes before embarrassing yourself. All the negative incidents in the past (as if there exists a single company this big in the world without any previous negative incidents) occurred despite club statutes forbidding it.

Barça was already one of the largest, iconic and most successful clubs with one of the biggest pulls before Cruyff but the Cruyff sporting model (Rinus Michels was a pioneer before Cruyff at the club but his teachings were not implemented in the same way Cruyff's were) only got implemented and flourished in the institutional ecosystem of Barça. So no, Barça as a club adopting a now neglected sporting model throughout the past 30+ years, is a testament to what I wrote earlier, not a criticism.

Go reread what I actually wrote before writing nonsense. I said that in the past 40+ years, the club was blessed with almost 30 years of very competent leadership that made us the most successful club in the world in that same period measured on trophies won (not just the football section but the basketball, hockey, handball and tons of other sections), playing style wise and other positive accolades. I obviously don't include the relatively short-lived Gaspart era or most if not all of the current 2010-2019 era, despite most parts of it being very successful trophy wise.

Anyway hard to take such posts seriously, when you are not informed, just focus on the negatives without even realizing that club's with such ownership models are usually the most successful. That and not admitting the much bigger faults of other club models that we witness time and time again.

Amazing that there can be culés out there who want another ownership and club model. Either they don't understand the workings of the club or never been socios to begin with.

Holy shit, Victor. Get him out immediately, being a roadblock between Juvenil A and Barca B is unacceptable.

Sigh. Tired of talking to the wall who is stuck in his small world view.
Mature posters should more come to this forum.

Problem is; not too many former players actively seek to remain active in some sort with football and then some are put off with this board.
So board got those who were either desperate (Valdes) or naive (Abidal). Oh yeah, and top of the tops: Valverde. Former noone in that Cruyff dream team.

It is what it is as the man says. Hold on and wait for elections.

Some of Valdes's comments in the past as a player were really odd in a bad way. The man seems to be a hard case, and that's a really bad flaw to have if you hope to be a successful manager one day, because management is all about being communicative and supporting.

Officially gone.

The writing was on the wall, the club not learning from past misstakes hired a complete crackpot to run the youth team, I wonder what could possibly go wrong

I have said it many times before in this thread, Valdes is a headcase, one of the most severe in fact, I would not be surpriced if he eventually end up in Real Madrid