Xavi Hernández

serghei said:

[MENTION=11668]khaled_a_d[/MENTION], your proposed approach has been the one Bartomeu used this whole time. It has worked rather poorly long term. Sincerely, your line of argumentation would have made it very hard to ever get in a position to get someone like Guardiola, simply because he wasn't experienced at the time, and didn't have credentials. You put far too much emphasis on that.

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That is nonsense.
As I said, there are 2 approaches, work within the organization or prove yourself against top coaches in a strong league.
The 1st one is literally what Pep did, and I mentioned it zillions of times.
Pep did it, Zidane did it, Lucho did it, Pirlo was on the way to do it before Juve sacked Sarri. Alonso and Raul are currently doing it.

Xavi decided to go to Qatar, because he thinks it is better to challenge the likes of Blanc, Schafer, Hallgrimsson, Jokanovic rather than Alonso and Raul? Fair play to him, I myself conceded that it is bigger job than 3rd division but it simply takes him out of the 2 categories that big clubs has appointed coaches from 1-developed within 2-Done decent job elsewhere (by elsewhere, I mean in Europe or SA at least).

When you decide to make your own path, you can't demand others to agree with you in it.
If Laporta see it as bad choice, can you blame him?

Xavi isn't young for a coach either, by next year he will be 42 which isn't that young for a new coach.

If we give Xavi the job due to lack of alternatives, that is another thing. But what if Klopp decided next year that his cycle with Liverpool is over? Do you choose Xavi over him? what if Marco Rose wins Bundesliga with BVB? Do you go after Xavi instead of him just because he is Xavi?

I said it before, I am open to Xavi as new coach one day, but for me I want another coach between Koeman and Xavi. It will be helpful to everyone including Xavi himself.
When a coach like him says in his 1st year as a manager that he didn't coach defense, I will have to question what rookie adjustments he will need in Europe against world class opponents, I would prefer if he get that reality check somewhere else instead of his 1st season in Barca.
And hopefully, he will have no former teammates by then

khaled_a_d said:

That is nonsense.
As I said, there are 2 approaches, work within the organization or prove yourself against top coaches in a strong league.
The 1st one is literally what Pep did, and I mentioned it zillions of times.
Pep did it, Zidane did it, Lucho did it, Pirlo was on the way to do it before Juve sacked Sarri. Alonso and Raul are currently doing it.

Xavi decided to go to Qatar, because he thinks it is better to challenge the likes of Blanc, Schafer, Hallgrimsson, Jokanovic rather than Alonso and Raul? Fair play to him, I myself conceded that it is bigger job than 3rd division but it simply takes him out of the 2 categories that big clubs has appointed coaches from 1-developed within 2-Done decent job elsewhere (by elsewhere, I mean in Europe or SA at least).

When you decide to make your own path, you can't demand others to agree with you in it.
If Laporta see it as bad choice, can you blame him?

Xavi isn't young for a coach either, by next year he will be 42 which isn't that young for a new coach.

If we give Xavi the job due to lack of alternatives, that is another thing. But what if Klopp decided next year that his cycle with Liverpool is over? Do you choose Xavi over him? what if Marco Rose wins Bundesliga with BVB? Do you go after Xavi instead of him just because he is Xavi?

I said it before, I am open to Xavi as new coach one day, but for me I want another coach between Koeman and Xavi. It will be helpful to everyone including Xavi himself.
When a coach like him says in his 1st year as a manager that he didn't coach defense, I will have to question what rookie adjustments he will need in Europe against world class opponents, I would prefer if he get that reality check somewhere else instead of his 1st season in Barca.
And hopefully, he will have no former teammates by then

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Good post.

I will add that coaching the B team is not "just a step down as it is a development team". It is the opportunity to coach inside the Barcelona environment and prove your credentials for the first team.

And when you go to the first team, you have a complete understanding of the B team players you are ready to take with you straight away and those who might be ready in 1 year, 2 years etc. Not just peripherally seeing someone like Riqui Puig and saying he has the DNA to make it here.

So there is merit in what Laporta sees as "graduate criteria" for Xavi to show what he does as a manager inside Barcelona before going to the first team- ideally next year as that is when Koeman contract expires.

One final point, and this comes with todays news of the overhaul of the La Masia. Going to the B team now means you also get to imprint the new direction of the whole of LaMasia. So it is an interesting proposition, just not paid as highly as Qatar.

[MENTION=29755]Bobo32[/MENTION] - I agree, he seems to have the traits and can might jump successfully from Qatar. The points Khaled made on Laporta's thinking are very sound. It is not really a step backwards to get involved in the Barcelona system for a year with B.

To make an analogy in Qatar he is taking players from 0 to 70 which is easier than taking players from 70 to 90, and where all of your rivals are also trying to implement similar styles as yourself.

Did Xavi decide to go to Qatar for those reasons? Genuine question. I thought he went there to play for a couple of years and be paid lots of money for it whilst living a mad luxury lifestyle in Qatar. I'm sure there was the agreement to coach afterwards, learn the ropes and practice his ideas. It's just that reason to go there isn't what's being made out. Unless of course there's some source verifying it that I'm unaware of.

Recently didn't he say he was staying to be part of this whole Qatar 2022 world cup business, to promote it etc? So if I have this right (more than happy to be proven wrong because I wouldn't want this to be the case about our legends) it seems like he's there to earn loads of money, be treated like a god and promote the most corruptly awarded world cup ever?

Rory said:

Did Xavi decide to go to Qatar for those reasons? Genuine question. I thought he went there to play for a couple of years and be paid lots of money for it whilst living a mad luxury lifestyle in Qatar. I'm sure there was the agreement to coach afterwards, learn the ropes and practice his ideas. It's just that reason to go there isn't what's being made out. Unless of course there's some source verifying it that I'm unaware of.

Recently didn't he say he was staying to be part of this whole Qatar 2022 world cup business, to promote it etc? So if I have this right (more than happy to be proven wrong because I wouldn't want this to be the case about our legends) it seems like he's there to earn loads of money, be treated like a god and promote the most corruptly awarded world cup ever?

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https://www.gulf-times.com/story/442831/Proud-Xavi-Hernandez-unveiled-by-Al-Sadd-club

The midfielder has signed a two-year contract, which could be extended to three years, and will play and coach as well as be an ambassador for Qatar's World Cup 2022 bid.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/32811382

"We have a unique opportunity to make history," said Xavi. "I think the Qatar project is nice, and it's ideal for me. In the future I'd like to come back to Barca.

"I had a very good offer to renew with Barca, but I didn't even tell my mother. I want to keep playing. I know I can still perform, although it'll be in a lower-level league.

"Barca will continue to be great without me. I'm convinced."

According to his agent, Ivan Corretja, Xavi would also become an ambassador for the 2022 World Cup to be held in the Gulf state, and look to start his coaching qualifications.

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Then other sources say it is a 10m/year contract. Can't blame him for taking a deal like that. Only thing is the expectation that that qualifies directly to the Barcelona A team job.

serghei said:

Laporta better be very careful what he does, because he is in danger of fucking it up royally. It should be either Xavi, or the creme de la creme of managers. If he comes up with some crap name, someone with experience but bland as fuck, his tenure is gonna fail big time.

Xavi makes sense. Even if he fails, you can't really moan that you gave him a chance, he's the brain of the best team ever ffs. Sometimes I get the feeling we're talking about somebody else.

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You are talking about someone else. You are talking about Xavi the player who retired some years ago. We are talking about Xavi the coach who started coaching in Qatar.
Xavi the coach makes 0 sense
Giving him a chance is not an obligation of the club, especially at this moment.

Laporta wants Pep, that's clear. And he is willing to wait until 2023 to get him if there is chance he would reconsider then. Personally I think he won't, since he does not want to coach Barca again.

Then there are the top German coaches that Laporta had in mind like Klopp, Flick, Nagelsman, Tuchel.
Unfortunately all of them are employed and with contracts that do not suggest their time is up anytime soon.

Hence, it's more likely that Koeman stays put until one of them becomes available, and that should be the strategy Laporta has in mind.
He is not gonna blow Koeman's work in transitioning, playing better football, introducing youngsters, and moving out the old guard, for an experiment with an unproven Xavi or Pimienta or someone else that just excites the fancy and imagination of some portion of the fanbase.

Holly molly he is READY!!!


https://youtu.be/YmmbzOSp-bw

kattanib said:

Holly molly he is READY!!!


https://youtu.be/YmmbzOSp-bw

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Must do something in AFC champion league first. Can not even go past group stage is simply not ready for Europe.

kattanib said:

Holly molly he is READY!!!


https://youtu.be/YmmbzOSp-bw

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The same as Pep's patterns.
Already after watching for 2 minutes, you figure out that every time a winger is alone in the box, he won't shoot but instead he will pass to someone in the center who is unmarked for a tap-in.

An awesome tactics against low quality and low IQ midtable league opponents.
Quite meh and predictable against big teams in a CL (or in Asian CL, also).

Since with Koeman we play meh and we aren't winning anything, Xavi wouldn't be the end of the world.
But I am highly sceptical that his type of football will ever again be good enough on the bigger stage.
It surely is entertaining and it wakes up people's memories on 2008-2012, though.

The only problem I have with Pep recently is that he likes to stack his teams with playmaking wingers/AM's.

mc_lovin said:

The only problem I have with Pep recently is that he likes to stack his teams with playmaking wingers/AM's.

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True. Not the biggest fan either.

mc_lovin said:

The only problem I have with Pep recently is that he likes to stack his teams with playmaking wingers/AM's.

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Too many players who would rather pass the ball to a teammate than to shoot.
Paired with Pep's idea to never shoot from tricky positions (and waiting for a perfect opportunity) and you get a lot of control, possession but in the end, somewhat sterile and predictable football infront of a goal.

It is not a coincidence that his teams have 80% possession, tons of shots, they should have won on stats/shots, but they rarely do in CL KO matches.
I will exaggerate, it is like having 11 Pedri's on a field: tons of possession, control and shots, not too many goals.

Even now, I have a feeling that Pep would always rather buy Grealish (a winger-playmaker) than Haaland.
Or Kane (playmaking forward) than Haaland.

Pep always goes too hard with too much playmaking and sacrifying everything else.

BBZ8800 said:

Too many players who would rather pass the ball to a teammate than to shoot.
Paired with Pep's idea to never shoot from tricky positions (and waiting for a perfect opportunity) and you get a lot of control, possession but in the end, somewhat sterile and predictable football infront of a goal.

It is not a coincidence that his teams have 80% possession, tons of shots, they should have won on stats/shots, but they rarely do in CL KO matches.
I will exaggerate, it is like having 11 Pedri's on a field: tons of possession, control and shots, not too many goals.

Even now, I have a feeling that Pep would always rather buy Grealish (a winger-playmaker) than Haaland.
Or Kane (playmaking forward) than Haaland.

Pep always goes too hard with too much playmaking and sacrifying everything else.

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You have made this claim constantly about Peps football which isnt true.

Pep allows his forward players freedom to take shots and from outside box and to play on break. It is not all about 80% possession at all times and taking little risks.

They were third for goals outside the box last season in the league and first the season before.

Scoring goals has rarely been the issue in CL either it has been defensively they have had more issues. They got to CL final and lost by a goal but you go on as if the style is a complete failure in that competition.

Pep doesnt want Grealish over Kane. He wants both and Kane is as good a penalty box striker as their is AND can play deeper if needed.

JamDav1982 said:

You have made this claim constantly about Peps football which isnt true.

Pep allows his forward players freedom to take shots and from outside box and to play on break. It is not all about 80% possession at all times and taking little risks.

They were third for goals outside the box last season in the league and first the season before.

Scoring goals has rarely been the issue in CL either it has been defensively they have had more issues. They got to CL final and lost by a goal but you go on as if the style is a complete failure in that competition.

Pep doesnt want Grealish over Kane. He wants both and Kane is as good a penalty box striker as their is AND can play deeper if needed.

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There is some truth however to the idea that Pep probably over-relies on creative players finding pockets of space and does not balance it enough with players who can get on the end of what they create and translate it into goals. He just did not use Gabriel Jesus, who despite his flaws, was a good example of someone who could do just that when he did not have a lot other players like that in his squad this season.

I could say a lot on this but I think a majority of the problems Pep has comes down to his line-up selections and man management. He has a weird thing with playing players out of position and especially at City, he at times has lacked a player who can truly make that difference for his side on in the final third. One of his biggest mistakes continues to be how he uses KdB for example: it seems like he is forcing him to be the Messi for City in some regards when he really is a different sort of player than him. 17-19 was more in the right direction with his frontlines of Sterling-Aguero/Gabi-Sane/Mahrez but even when they failed in Europe, KdB was in the forward line.

When it comes to Jack, he is the first player since maybe Robben and to a lesser degree, Mahrez who is a genuine crack, someone who is that difference maker. That and the merch sales are more than anything, what is motivating this move. Whether or not this is in the best interest for City long term and in terms of squad harmony is another question and with Kane on top of that, it might finally be enough for him to win it in Europe. There is a lot to unpack with Pep at City but I think his failures come down to his neurotic-ass self getting in his own way than say someone like Mou, who clearly looks past it.

In terms of Xavi, I am pretty 50/50 on it overall. The positives are pretty easy to see, the football looks good and I would like to see how this does at the biggest stage. That said, Pep & Lucho had at the very least, different football perspectives that helped broaden their perspectives a bit.

Pep for example had a lot of interaction with a lot of great thinkers and innovators from a managerial view before and during his time with the B squad that was instrumental his success, with Sacchi being the one to highlight. I would argue that much of Peps legacy and current impact on the game has to do with synthesizing Cruyff & Sacchi tactical elements and is thus why pressing and compactness is so important in the modern game now. Lucho struggled a bit at Roma and saw how much teams were destroying him on the counter and adapted some of that into his approach now. Even Zidane stepped out of his comfort zone in Madrid and studied under Pep during his time at Bayern, which I think was a big factor in helping Zidane compete so quickly on the big stage.

I would like to see Xavi do something similar before he starts here. His experience and what he has done is commendable but after next summer, I think he needs to move on and get some experience in Europe so he is at least aware of the tactical climate he is stepping into and can plan/tweak accordingly. He would not necessarily need to manage somewhere, just 6 months working as an assistant somewhere and or shadowing a manager and working closely with them could be sufficient. It would be ideal for him to just work with Koeman in this regard but that could get messy, quick and I think there would be a lot more for him and down the line, us to gain by him being in a new place. The Germans seem to be on the forefront so working with Dortmund (who offered him the job ffs) makes sense but even niche places like Atalanta or even Rangers would be intriguing.

Just spitballin’ here

I am excited to see Xavi here one day though and it is getting closer. Considering the talent that is starting to emerge here from La Masia, he will have the talent to work with to hopefully make something special.

That video is just examples of objectively great attacking patterns, strange to find something negative to talk about there.