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Thread: How to approach the rebuild

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    The rebuilding will have to be based on La Masia, a top top manager (pray Xavi is the one, because the big names who back it up on the field are all taken by other big clubs), and some very smart and effective signings on reasonable fees.

    At the moment, we can't afford even a single mega transfer. Especially with Messi's salary staying in our books. If he goes, maybe.

    What I don't like about the club, is that we don't really embrace this model. Buying the most popular and biggest players constantly is not the only way to be successful in football.

    Surely Barca has to be more than just about the money we can spend at a given point.
    Yes and I believe Barcelona will have less opportunity to succeed through outspending or outscouting their opponents the more time goes. They'll surely be able to find one gem here and there, like with Pedri, and for a few years they'll have their status help them in acquring young talents and so on. Maybe Font had some good ideas with regards to the economy, he talked a bit about it...

    ---

    Alba plays the same role as currently in the eleven I posted, the big difference to Koemans 3-5-2 lies on the other flank. Also, my defenders are better ball players, I have a clear #9, and my central midfielders have more Barca-DNA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo32 View Post
    I see a lot of terrible elevens on this forum, I will post mine I played around with, from 19 aug 2020...
    Attachment 8905

    I guess Silva was a bit unrealistic, but Thiago and Garcia probably wasn't...
    I'll add that I didn't know much about Garcia, added him based on what I heard about him mostly and not liking the alternatives available.

    Pique, Busquets, Messi and Alba have a few years of top quality in them. These first years of the 20's will decide a lot for the club, if they can build on the little that is left from Pep and start a new era, or if they will go the way of trying to buy a new team the same way that f.e Manchester United did post Ferguson (Barcelona had some post-Pep years, but their post Messi+Busquets years will be a bigger test).
    The hard neck to post about Koeman then put forward a team as shite as that.

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo32 View Post
    I see a lot of terrible elevens on this forum, I will post mine I played around with, from 19 aug 2020...
    Attachment 8905

    I guess Silva was a bit unrealistic, but Thiago and Garcia probably wasn't...
    I'll add that I didn't know much about Garcia, added him based on what I heard about him mostly and not liking the alternatives available.

    Pique, Busquets, Messi and Alba have a few years of top quality in them. These first years of the 20's will decide a lot for the club, if they can build on the little that is left from Pep and start a new era, or if they will go the way of trying to buy a new team the same way that f.e Manchester United did post Ferguson (Barcelona had some post-Pep years, but their post Messi+Busquets years will be a bigger test).
    The team is truly bad bruv

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    The rebuilding will have to be based on La Masia, a top top manager (pray Xavi is the one, because the big names who back it up on the field are all taken by other big clubs), and some very smart and effective signings on reasonable fees.

    At the moment, we can't afford even a single mega transfer. Especially with Messi's salary staying in our books. If he goes, maybe.

    What I don't like about the club, is that we don't really embrace this model. Buying the most popular and biggest players constantly is not the only way to be successful in football.

    Surely Barca has to be more than just about the money we can spend at a given point.
    No.
    La Masia should be supporting the rebuild, but it shouldn't be about it.
    In addition, it is also time to realise that rebuild isn't just a youth movement, it involves getting players in their primes and even a selective number of veterans.

    Our most successful rebuild (one of the greatest ever) was done in 2003, and half of our squad was players signed aged 27-28 years of age. There was some younger guys (Eto & R10 was 23 when signed, Marquez 24) but there was other veterans like Larson.
    VV, Puyol and Oleguer was the only starting players in 05/06 season CL final who played in Barca B/La Masia. Iniesta and Motta were other 2 players coming from the bench that season while Xavi and Messi had their season ended early on. Playters like Puyol and Xavi were in the teams for 7+ years at that point, Messi and Iniesta were the only youngsters developing in the team atm and Oleguer and Motta were Barca B players signings like Araujo.

    Even with Pep retool, huge part of iot was about using the established La Masia players through the years (Messi, Xavi, Puyol,VV,Iniesta) and added only 2 players through 2 seasons (Busquets and Pedro) while doing 5+ important signings (Alves,Pique, Keita,Mascherano, Villa)

    Last successful retool was with Lucho, and it was solely based on adding players from outside, with some chances to La Masia busts we were excited about like Munir and Sandro, who had a comparable performances to Puig for example.
    At the moment we have no established La Masia players, there is huge gap between last La Masia veteran (Roberto) and the next one (Puig/Araujo/Fati)


    If this is going to be successful rebuild, it should be done by shrewd signings, that makes those youngsters develop in their proper timeline with less pressure.

    In next season, the only players from this squad that will be 24-28 (players normal prime years) are Umtiti,Lenglet,Dembele & FDJ. Only reliable player out of them is FDJ and the rest should not be even here.
    In normal circumstances, this needs to be 10+ players, with at least 5 reliable starters.

  5. #215
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    This rebuild will take more time than those ones, because of the reasons you mention.

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    I don't think so much is needed right now to get back on track, just a couple of key decisions succeeding.
    With Messi and the rest gone VERY much will be needed, and an opportunity like in 2003/2004 will probably never arrive again, buying 3-4 of the most hyped players in Europe, and all of them being successes, all the while having the GOAT appear from la masia...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo32 View Post
    I don't think so much is needed right now to get back on track, just a couple of key decisions succeeding.
    With Messi and the rest gone VERY much will be needed, and an opportunity like in 2003/2004 will probably never arrive again, buying 3-4 of the most hyped players in Europe, and all of them being successes, all the while having the GOAT appear from la masia...
    People seem to think that getting rid of the old guard and replacing them with no name youngsters and mid table players, somehow makes the team better.
    It has been proven with every player from the golden days that left us, that the team dropped a level. Every single time, the same thing happened.
    Imagine the drop of level when Messi leaves. You can't expect our level to go up suddenly. It will take time, money and luck. Brace..

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    The first thing you need to do is get new people into the club who know how to condition these players to actually run for ninety minutes. They looked slow and weak against PSG, who in turn could not physically cope with Man City. I don't see how you're going to compete at the top level with these soyboys strolling around.

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    Every department needs changes. Defense, midfield, attack. Some of our players are ageing, some are not good enough etc. There's also a lack of genuine leadership in the squad. Players with fight, mettle etc. It sounds cliche but its one of the reasons we crumble in huge games.

    The other issue is the lack of athleticism/physique. It gets repeated so much it's probably a bore by now but it a fucking fact that we're too weak. Especially in midfield. That's another reason we get blown away against the top teams in Europe. I've seen posters here propose deluded lineups like Pedri-Frenkie-Puig which Pep himself would not even field in a competitive game today. He still heavily uses a 36 yrs destroyer like Fernandinho in huge games btw. A player tiki taki romantics would turn up their nose at.

    Outside of that, i would like to see us be more direct. All the possession against Athleti and Real counted for little because we were too busy doing short passing drills. As soon as Athletico got the ball they didn't fuck around at all. They drove forward, attacked the goal, took shots etc. Barca are too heavily reliant on short passing possession buildup. Once you put a compact block in the middle we don't have a clue at how to get around it. It's a sort of archaic philosophy that gets us nowhere tbh. Nothing wrong with possessions but it needs to be tweaked.

    So our biggest issues, old slow seniors. No leaders. No fight. Weak pussy players, physically & mentally. Extremely one dimensional players still stuck in tiki taka slow possession days. lack of directness. I remember City playing without a 9 recently but it didn't really matter because their midfielders can actually push forward and score. How many of ours can do that? They would be busy making a 5 yard back pass or another to Messi.

    Also a 9 is an absolute must. Absolute must.
    I always tell my guys that our playing style is about movement” - Marcelo Bielsa.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by khaled_a_d View Post
    No.
    La Masia should be supporting the rebuild, but it shouldn't be about it.
    In addition, it is also time to realise that rebuild isn't just a youth movement, it involves getting players in their primes and even a selective number of veterans.

    Our most successful rebuild (one of the greatest ever) was done in 2003, and half of our squad was players signed aged 27-28 years of age. There was some younger guys (Eto & R10 was 23 when signed, Marquez 24) but there was other veterans like Larson.
    VV, Puyol and Oleguer was the only starting players in 05/06 season CL final who played in Barca B/La Masia. Iniesta and Motta were other 2 players coming from the bench that season while Xavi and Messi had their season ended early on. Playters like Puyol and Xavi were in the teams for 7+ years at that point, Messi and Iniesta were the only youngsters developing in the team atm and Oleguer and Motta were Barca B players signings like Araujo.

    Even with Pep retool, huge part of iot was about using the established La Masia players through the years (Messi, Xavi, Puyol,VV,Iniesta) and added only 2 players through 2 seasons (Busquets and Pedro) while doing 5+ important signings (Alves,Pique, Keita,Mascherano, Villa)

    Last successful retool was with Lucho, and it was solely based on adding players from outside, with some chances to La Masia busts we were excited about like Munir and Sandro, who had a comparable performances to Puig for example.
    At the moment we have no established La Masia players, there is huge gap between last La Masia veteran (Roberto) and the next one (Puig/Araujo/Fati)


    If this is going to be successful rebuild, it should be done by shrewd signings, that makes those youngsters develop in their proper timeline with less pressure.

    In next season, the only players from this squad that will be 24-28 (players normal prime years) are Umtiti,Lenglet,Dembele & FDJ. Only reliable player out of them is FDJ and the rest should not be even here.
    In normal circumstances, this needs to be 10+ players, with at least 5 reliable starters.
    I don't disagree with your point but the problem is players in their prime these days are either totally off the market (key players in other top clubs that don't want to sell them) or very expensive. Either way, in our current situation unlikely to get them. How much would 23 years old R10 or Eto'o cost today? If R10 would play for PSG we could forget about ever getting him (at least while he'd still play on top level).

    So our only solution is to look at players with expiring contracts either this year or next year which we're doing. And that's why I'm not against signing Memphis. He won't be our R10 but could be like Giuly. And why I also wouldn't mind signing Wijnaldum even if he's on the wrong side of the 30s but still think he could give us 2-3 solid years. Garcia will also surely sign but he's another youngster.

    But for other players who could we get this year?

    - Alaba has apparently already signed for RM and if that rumoured contract - 5 years with around the same wages as Ramos - is true I'm totally ok with us staying away from him
    - Draxler could be an option for midfield but I prefer to give a chance to our youngsters
    - Calhanoglu - the same as for Draxler
    - Hysaj - I'd rather keep faith in Dest and bring back Emerson
    - Rui Silva - could be good as Neto replacement and competition for MATS but he'll surely go to a team where he'll start (rumours are he has already signed with Betis)
    - Dmitrović - the same as for R. Silva but he has apparently signed with Sevilla
    - Mandi - would be another 3rd/4th CB which we already have, don't see him as being a clear improvement over anyone we have. Also has signed with Villarreal according to rumours


    Then in 2022:

    - Mbappe - I'll mention him even if he doesn't fit that age criteria but he's the best player on this list. Don't think we'll ever have a chance to get him but if we could then do that (even if I'm not his biggest fan).
    - Goretzka - would be great but Bayern will extend him before we'll have a chance to get him
    - Pogba - nope
    - Dybala - nope
    - Kessie - wouldn't mind him
    - Sabitzer - a very solid versatile player who I'd seriously consider for free. Probably won't be available though.
    - Belotti - not sure about Italians at Barca but would be an improvement over what we have now.
    - Gosens - would be a great competition and possible longterm replacement for Alba imo but rumours are he's off to EPL
    - Zakaria - I've not watched him much but he was linked to likes of City. Like his profile but as said don't really know that much about him.
    - Romagnoli - was linked to us a few times, don't know if he's who we should target though
    - Onana - currently banned for a year, we have no idea in what state he'll be when he returns. And despite hate MATS is getting here he's not going anywhere so unlikely Onana would come here to be his backup.
    - Christensen - was highly rated a few years ago but don't think he'd be a starter which we need (we have enough 3rd/4th CBs)
    - Milenković - could be an option at CB but I've not watched him enough to failry judge him
    - Edouard - I wouldn't mind gambling on him on a free next year but doubt Celtic will let his contract expire. Don't know if he'd be able to make a jump from Celtic to Barca and how much I'd be willing to pay for him this summer but there are quite a few strikers I'd look at before him.

    So surely some interesting players who could improve the team but hardly see any of these players who we could realistically expect to sign having anywhere close to the same immediate impact as R10 or Eto'o did back in the days.

  11. #221
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    Griezmann, Dembele, Pjanic, Firpo, Braithwaite, Neto, Coutinho, Lenglet, Umtiti & Fernandes - 10 players that should never play for Barca again

    Pena, Moriba, Mingueza, Nico, Jandro & Collado to train with 1st team this summer in preseason

    Akieme with mandatory 3.5M sale to Almeria, Todibo should be closed to Nice, Monchu to Girona with mandatory 3.5M (Their promotion determines whether sold or returns to Barca), Alena returns from Getafe but in last year of contract (2022) meaning the 23 y.o.'s future linked to any coaching/sporting alignment this summer, Kondrad with expiring contract (2022, 2 yr option) that will also align with sporting/coaching for future - sold or integrated into 1st team, Balde also in last year of contract (Mendes as agent) and meant to spend pre-season with 1st team - his future is likely as backup with Alba

    Emerson will not be sold unless a significant offer comes in, which is unlikely - Barca currently eligible for 50% of any sale without paying addtl 9million to secure him (Meaning minimum of 25M this summer)

    Wague (2023) knee injured in Greece which makes his future unclear but loan likely again, Miranda has a loan ending at Betis as well as his contract (optional 2 yr extension) and I suspect a deal will be made with Betis to continue there via sale/loan

    Loan out Trincao


    GK: Mats, Pena
    CB: Mingueza, Garcia, Pique, Araujo
    LB: Alba, Balde
    RB: Dest, Emerson
    M: Busi, FDJ, Pedri, Puig, Roberto
    LW: Ansu, Konrad/Depay
    RW: Depay/Konrad
    F: Messi, Kun, Depay

    Targets: Goalscoring forward, CB/M
    Paolo Maldini - "In my opinion, Messi should win the Ballon D'Or each year. He's an unbelievable player."

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    I agree that we ideally need reinforcements in every line, but I think a lot of our problems are connected to our attack, so I hope thats our focus this summer. We seriously lack punch, which is ironic because we are the highest scoring team in the league. From our current attackers I would honestly only keep Messi and Fati.

    Get Messi some good receivers with pace and/or physicality. Depay, Daka and Moukoko (not very realistic, but who knows - contract until 2022) for example. Thats ~60ME in total. Maybe keep one of Dembele or Griezmann to not make it batshit insane :P But we badly need to restructure our forward line, and more importantly add depth.

    More depth in attack --> 433 is viable again --> Araujo is back in business --> profit ;D

  13. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by FCBarca View Post
    Griezmann, Dembele, Pjanic, Firpo, Braithwaite, Neto, Coutinho, Lenglet, Umtiti & Fernandes - 10 players that should never play for Barca again
    +1
    You singled out the correct players I think.
    I don't think the club can expect to get a lot of money for these players, but many of them could probably be included in good swap deals I think?
    I listed some suggestions in the transfer thread...

  14. #224
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    Personally I'd keep Griezmann, Pjanić and maybe Lenglet.

    Send Busi and Pique to MLS/retirement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo32 View Post
    +1
    You singled out the correct players I think.
    I don't think the club can expect to get a lot of money for these players, but many of them could probably be included in good swap deals I think?
    I listed some suggestions in the transfer thread...
    Swap deals are extremely rare. I don't understand why people suggest those. Why on earth would anyone want our trash instead of cash?


    Quote Originally Posted by Messi983 View Post
    Personally I'd keep Griezmann, Pjanić and maybe Lenglet.

    Send Busi and Pique to MLS/retirement.
    Dude you gotta let him go.