8 - Pedro Gonzalez "Pedri"

JohnN

JohnN

Senior Member
serghei said:
Not that weird. Some Barca fans are not as invested in our Cruyffist philosophy, they prefer a more end-to-end physical approach based on faster transitions with flair players like Ronaldinho, Eto'o etc to make the difference in these moments when the game hangs on a tilt and swifts from side to side. BBZ, khaled, Joan are among these. Not wrong, just a preference for a different style of play and not as possession-control oriented.

But to say Xavi is overrated is a bit like saying boats are overrated because they can't run on concrete. In his domain (basically CM, not no10, not box-to-box / DM, not AM), he's no1 possibly of all time, and for sure in the modern era.

There will always be Barca fans who would prefer MSN Barca for example to 2011 Barca. Even though 2011 Barca would probably win 6 out of 10 games vs Lucho's side.
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Peak performance vs Peak performance, 2011 Barca wins 8 out of 10 in my opinion. Our cryptonite in 2011 was deep double decker busses with great counter attacking abilities. Luchos Barca had the counter attacking but not the defense to hold Pep's tiki taka Barca. It would be something like the second final against United.
 
Bobo32

Bobo32

Senior Member
Yeah 2011 was probably objectively better. It's fine to subjectively prefer 2015 or 2006, but the success of the 2011 style should not be explained by "Xavi suddenly became the GOAT and unplayable" etc.
I agree Xavi is overrated by those who underrated him before he was gradually getting the team built around him and his style when he was 28.
 
S

SmilerBam

Active member
serghei said:
Not that weird. Some Barca fans are not as invested in our Cruyffist philosophy, they prefer a more end-to-end physical approach based on faster transitions with flair players like Ronaldinho, Eto'o etc to make the difference in these moments when the game hangs on a tilt and swifts from side to side. BBZ, khaled, Joan are among these. Not wrong, just a preference for a different style of play and not as possession-control oriented.

But to say Xavi is overrated is a bit like saying boats are overrated because they can't run on concrete. In his domain (basically CM, not no10, not box-to-box / DM, not AM), he's no1 possibly of all time, and for sure in the modern era.

There will always be Barca fans who would prefer MSN Barca for example to 2011 Barca. Even though 2011 Barca would probably win 6 out of 10 games vs Lucho's side.
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Barca 2011 will suffocate Lucho's side, they will not see the ball. Plus, that team has peak Messi, David Villa and a very in form Pedro. Not MSN level, but still very, very good. The reat of the team is much better, in all compartiments. I reckon a game between them would be fairly high scoring games, with Barca 2011 winning 6 or 7 games, a draw, and maybe MSN winning 1 or 2 on sheer brilliance.
 
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Bobo32

Bobo32

Senior Member
SmilerBam said:
Barca 2011 will suffocate Lucho's side, they will not see the ball. Plus, that team has peak Messi, David Villa and a very in form Pedro. Not MSN level, but still very, very good. The reat of the team is much better, in all compartiments. I reckon a game between them would be fairly high scoring games, with Barca 2011 winning 6 or 7 games, a draw, and maybe MSN winning 1 or 2 on sheer brilliance.
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I'd say Alba was better than Abidal and Bravo/MatS was better than Valdes. Suarez and Neymar were ways above Villa and Pedro.
Puyol was obviously better than Mascherano though. But just going by the names, 2015 was much superior.
The big difference though was the style and the reliance on players playing that style, and not on "stars". Xavi was great 2015, but didn't really fit into that system anymore, he wasn't needed by LE...
 
fergus90

fergus90

Senior Member
Bobo32 said:
I'd say Alba was better than Abidal and Bravo/MatS was better than Valdes. Suarez and Neymar were ways above Villa and Pedro.
Puyol was obviously better than Mascherano though. But just going by the names, 2015 was much superior.
The big difference though was the style and the reliance on players playing that style, and not on "stars". Xavi was great 2015, but didn't really fit into that system anymore, he wasn't needed by LE...
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Xavi had his role in 2015 and quite often came on and allowed to us keep control. In fact, there were times when people were calling for him to start over Iniesta who suffered a dip in form at points.
 
S

SmilerBam

Active member
Bobo32 said:
I'd say Alba was better than Abidal and Bravo/MatS was better than Valdes. Suarez and Neymar were ways above Villa and Pedro.
Puyol was obviously better than Mascherano though. But just going by the names, 2015 was much superior.
The big difference though was the style and the reliance on players playing that style, and not on "stars". Xavi was great 2015, but didn't really fit into that system anymore, he wasn't needed by LE...
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Alba and Abidal are different, Abidal was much more solid defensively, while Alba is much better in attack. Ter Stegen is not better than Valdes imo, Valdes, although not perfect, wasn't freezing in big games. Villa was a great player, clearly not much behind Neymar and Suarez, people forget how good Villa was, he is the best spanish goalscorer in history, wonderful player. Messi was better in 2011 than in 2015, he was a force of nature, unstoppable. Alves was much younger too, and better. All in all, except the attack, i still think Barca 2011 was better individually and collectively too than Lucho's team. Both are great teams though and bought us a lot of good memories. Pity we are in such a dire state right now.
 
Bobo32

Bobo32

Senior Member
fergus90 said:
Xavi had his role in 2015 and quite often came on and allowed to us keep control. In fact, there were times when people were calling for him to start over Iniesta who suffered a dip in form at points.
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Sure, and I wanted him to play a lot more as I liked him as a player and preferred the 2011 style. But it's easy to see the logic behind shorter attacks and a player like Rakitic instead, in the short run.
SmilerBam said:
Alba and Abidal are different, Abidal was much more solid defensively, while Alba is much better in attack. Ter Stegen is not better than Valdes imo, Valdes, although not perfect, wasn't freezing in big games. Villa was a great player, clearly not much behind Neymar and Suarez, people forget how good Villa was, he is the best spanish goalscorer in history, wonderful player. Messi was better in 2011 than in 2015, he was a force of nature, unstoppable. Alves was much younger too, and better. All in all, except the attack, i still think Barca 2011 was better individually and collectively too than Lucho's team. Both are great teams though and bought us a lot of good memories. Pity we are in such a dire state right now.
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Collectively no doubt, individually I can see your points; LB and GK is a bit of a matter of preference, even MC too.
If Villa went immediately to Atletico Madrid and never was in Barcelona, I don't think anyone would compare him to Suarez.
I don't think many people other than me even compared Pedro to Neymar, and I did it only in reference to the style I want to play. I have to admit Neymar is individually much superior to Pedro.
 
JohnN

JohnN

Senior Member
Bobo32 said:
Sure, and I wanted him to play a lot more as I liked him as a player and preferred the 2011 style. But it's easy to see the logic behind shorter attacks and a player like Rakitic instead, in the short run.

Collectively no doubt, individually I can see your points; LB and GK is a bit of a matter of preference, even MC too.
If Villa went immediately to Atletico Madrid and never was in Barcelona, I don't think anyone would compare him to Suarez.
I don't think many people other than me even compared Pedro to Neymar, and I did it only in reference to the style I want to play. I have to admit Neymar is individually much superior to Pedro.
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I will say it right now. I prefer Pedro to Neymar.
 
L

Laplacian

Senior Member
People can argue about which versions of Neymar they prefer the most, but that's besides the point. All versions of Neymar, perhaps except Santos Neymar because he was too weak, were/are vastly superior to Pedro in all aspects of the game. Place him in the 2008/2012 Barcelona team, and the game would be elevated several times over. Doesn't matter what you think about his flaws; the ball hogging, the diving, heroball...it doesn't matter even with those flaws he still brings far more than Pedro has ever had on a consistent individual basis.

Pedro lost his starting spot to a young Neymar when he was at his prime. There's no sporting reason to choose Pedro over Neymar.
 
Bobo32

Bobo32

Senior Member
Laplacian said:
People can argue about which versions of Neymar they prefer the most, but that's besides the point. All versions of Neymar, perhaps except Santos Neymar because he was too weak, were/are vastly superior to Pedro in all aspects of the game. Place him in the 2008/2012 Barcelona team, and the game would be elevated several times over. Doesn't matter what you think about his flaws; the ball hogging, the diving, heroball...it doesn't matter even with those flaws he still brings far more than Pedro has ever had on a consistent individual basis.

Pedro lost his starting spot to a young Neymar when he was at his prime. There's no sporting reason to choose Pedro over Neymar.
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I choose Pedro over Neymar, and your comment is an example of the thinking that I think brought the club to its dire state.
Football is not about picking the 11 best players overall, but to play a certain way and to have players that can perform the tasks they are asked to do.
This way of thinking will secure the signings of another Dembele, Griezmann or Coutinho, as soon as there is money for it.
Xavi and Iniesta became legends when (and because) they finally got to play together and have the entire team built around their strengths, not before that.
Busquets became a professional player because of the perfect timing with Peps arrival, and he showed himself to be the GOAT of that position, but he wouldn't break through in Swindon Town. Pedro is about the same, but in the best system there ever was, the system that destroyed football, he was PERFECT, and I would never believe that Neymar would improve 2011 Barcelona.
 
L

Laplacian

Senior Member
Bobo32 said:
I choose Pedro over Neymar, and your comment is an example of the thinking that I think brought the club to its dire state.
Football is not about picking the 11 best players overall, but to play a certain way and to have players that can perform the tasks they are asked to do.
This way of thinking will secure the signings of another Dembele, Griezmann or Coutinho, as soon as there is money for it.
Xavi and Iniesta became legends when (and because) they finally got to play together and have the entire team built around their strengths, not before that.
Busquets became a professional player because of the perfect timing with Peps arrival, and he showed himself to be the GOAT of that position, but he wouldn't break through in Swindon Town. Pedro is about the same, but in the best system there ever was, the system that destroyed football, he was PERFECT, and I would never believe that Neymar would improve 2011 Barcelona.
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No one said football is about having the best 11 ever, I just said Neymar's a better choice over Pedro in every conceivable situation possible. Neymar can do what Pedro did and more. Delusional if you think otherwise.
 
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