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Thread: 10 - Lionel Messi

  1. #23281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Respekt_III View Post
    Typical strawman argument from you.

    Not hard to understand two very basic points.
    Removing Messi's salary will allow us to bring in let say 3 players - means we can potentially fix a lot of issues in the squad.
    Having a decent squad potentially means having better players and a more clinical forward then what is available to us now.
    This means that we can potentially concede less goals and score enough to be in a better overall situation.

    Removing Messi's goals doesn't automatically mean that no other striker will cover at least some of those goals.

    This is why i have an issue with those types of statements.

    Also a decent striker is most definitely not Gabriel Jesus who sometimes cant even get ahead of wingers...
    ok, but u don't consider that Messi means money going out and money going into Barcelona
    (many say that the balance is positive).
    So if you take away Messi you save his salary but you deprive yourself of the income he ensures you.
    And I don't think the financial situation of the team can improve so much to buy and pay salaries to 3 top players.

  2. #23282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniele View Post
    ok, but u don't consider that Messi means money going out and money going into Barcelona
    (many say that the balance is positive).
    So if you take away Messi you save his salary but you deprive yourself of the income he ensures you.
    And I don't think the financial situation of the team can improve so much to buy and pay salaries to 3 top players.
    Many are clueless when it comes to finances and the "analysis" / "model" behind how they derive those number are absurd, just read it for yourself lol... and yes we most certainly can.

  3. #23283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Respekt_III View Post
    Many are clueless when it comes to finances and the "analysis" / "model" behind how they derive those number are absurd, just read it for yourself lol... and yes we most certainly can.
    "The conclusion is that Messi generates 145m every year for the club - more than his 138m basic wage."

    Source givemesport.com;


    https://www.givemesport.com/1644969-lionel-messi-contract-barcelona-star-has-generated-more-than-12b-in-four-years

    Btw, with or withour Messi, Barca trasfertmarket will be under the sign of austerity. Forget the "names"
    Last edited by Daniele; 26th February 2021 at 07:02 AM.

  4. #23284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Respekt_III View Post
    Many are clueless when it comes to finances and the "analysis" / "model" behind how they derive those number are absurd, just read it for yourself lol... and yes we most certainly can.
    we are just speculating here and it's very likely we won't find the truth anyway.

    but i believe the guys running the club have done the math beforehand giving messi that huge contract. in fact, i believe they have calculated correctly and worked within the budget when they gave big contracts to the likes of griezmann or FDJ also.

    the only thing that they got wrong and might have negatively affected us, were the transfer fees for certain players over the last years. those should have been signings that would have kept the club competitive these days. instead we are relying on messi for both creativity(playmaking) and attack(finishing).

  5. #23285
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    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    we are just speculating here and it's very likely we won't find the truth anyway.

    but i believe the guys running the club have done the math beforehand giving messi that huge contract. in fact, i believe they have calculated correctly and worked within the budget when they gave big contracts to the likes of griezmann or FDJ also.

    the only thing that they got wrong and might have negatively affected us, were the transfer fees for certain players over the last years. those should have been signings that would have kept the club competitive these days. instead we are relying on messi for both creativity(playmaking) and attack(finishing).
    Wow you too from Romania ? Crazy how many Romania members we have here.


    Edit: Wow Messi has already scored 18 goals in la liga !! Only 8 goals missing to Lewandowski for golden shoe. Imagine Messi wouldnt have missed so many chances this season, he would have nearly 30 goals.
    Last edited by Fati_Future_BallonDor; 26th February 2021 at 10:11 AM.
    Update

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  6. #23286
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    Pressures(number of times applying pressure to opposing player who is receiving, carrying or releasing the ball) in 20/21 + (success rate)

    Lewandoski: 231 attempted/81 successful (35.1%)
    Messi: 168 attempted/57 successful (33.9%)
    Lukaku : 149 attempted/47 successful (31.5%)
    Haaland: 162 attempted/50 successful (30.9%)
    Salah: 294 attempted/90 successful (30.6%)
    Mbappe: 103 attempted/31 successful (30.1%)
    Ronaldo : 110 attempted/27 successful (24.5%)
    Kane : 265 attempted/64 successful (24.2%)
    Benzema : 140 attempted/24 successful (17.1%)

    [FBREF.COM]

    Lazy Messi

  7. #23287
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    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    Pressures(number of times applying pressure to opposing player who is receiving, carrying or releasing the ball) in 20/21 + (success rate)

    Lewandoski: 231 attempted/81 successful (35.1%)
    Messi: 168 attempted/57 successful (33.9%)
    Lukaku : 149 attempted/47 successful (31.5%)
    Haaland: 162 attempted/50 successful (30.9%)
    Salah: 294 attempted/90 successful (30.6%)
    Mbappe: 103 attempted/31 successful (30.1%)
    Ronaldo : 110 attempted/27 successful (24.5%)
    Kane : 265 attempted/64 successful (24.2%)
    Benzema : 140 attempted/24 successful (17.1%)

    [FBREF.COM]

    Lazy Messi
    He's been very active at pressing the likes of Alaves but being completely static vs PSG for some reason this season. Maybe Koeman's tactics.

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    He chooses his moments to press so sporadically and seemingly based on no external factor other than when he feels like it. That's the only issue I have with his pressing. I think this season except the first 5-8 games he's pressed well for his position/role in the team.

  9. #23289
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    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post
    Pressures(number of times applying pressure to opposing player who is receiving, carrying or releasing the ball) in 20/21 + (success rate)

    Lewandoski: 231 attempted/81 successful (35.1%)
    Messi: 168 attempted/57 successful (33.9%)
    Lukaku : 149 attempted/47 successful (31.5%)
    Haaland: 162 attempted/50 successful (30.9%)
    Salah: 294 attempted/90 successful (30.6%)
    Mbappe: 103 attempted/31 successful (30.1%)
    Ronaldo : 110 attempted/27 successful (24.5%)
    Kane : 265 attempted/64 successful (24.2%)
    Benzema : 140 attempted/24 successful (17.1%)

    [FBREF.COM]

    Lazy Messi
    Difficult, against big teams he didnt run much.
    Update

    Two missions:

    1. Winning la liga title

    2. Winning Copa final

    Lets do it guys !!!

    The fantastic four: Me, BarcaOG, Kingleo10, Vilarrubi, NO rassvet

    My achievements since joining this forum: Barcaforum d'Or 2021 - Thanks for this fantastic trophy, i hope to win it again next year.

  10. #23290
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    Quote Originally Posted by te amo barca View Post
    He's been very active at pressing the likes of Alaves but being completely static vs PSG for some reason this season. Maybe Koeman's tactics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rory View Post
    He chooses his moments to press so sporadically and seemingly based on no external factor other than when he feels like it. That's the only issue I have with his pressing. I think this season except the first 5-8 games he's pressed well for his position/role in the team.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fati_Future_BallonDor View Post
    Difficult, against big teams he didnt run much.


    up until now the discussion was that he doesn't press much and that hinders our defensive play. now that we look at the numbers and we see that he is pretty much in line with other forwards, he is not pressing when we want or against who we want. what next boys? he can't do it on a wet, windy wednesday night in stoke?

  11. #23291
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    Goal(the two offensive actions directly leading to a goal, such as passes, dribbles and drawing fouls)
    and
    Shot(the two offensive actions directly leading to a shot, such as passes, dribbles and drawing fouls.)
    Creation (Total & Per 90')

    Neymar Goal(14 1.45) + Shot (74 7.69)
    Lionel Messi Goal(25 1.21) + Shot(156 7.58)
    Jadon Sancho Goal(25 1.21) + Shot(93 4.98)
    Kylian Mbappe Goal(20 1.12) + Shot(74 4.13)
    Joshua Kimmich Goal(13 0.96) + Shot(67 4.94)
    Bruno Fernandes Goal(22 0.94) + Shot(118 5.05)
    Jack Grealish Goal(20 0.91) + Shot(134 6.10)
    Kevin De Bruyne Goal(15 0.91) + Shot(105 6.39)
    Angel Di Maria Goal(13 0.87) + Shot(93 6.21)
    Memphis Depay Goal(18 0.81) + Shot(123 5.56)
    Hakan ?alhanoğlu Goal(14 0.80) + Shot(112 6.36)

    [FBREF.COM]

    Bum Messi, not even Top 3 in the world!

  12. #23292
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    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post


    up until now the discussion was that he doesn't press much and that hinders our defensive play. now that we look at the numbers and we see that he is pretty much in line with other forwards, he is not pressing when we want or against who we want. what next boys? he can't do it on a wet, windy wednesday night in stoke?
    Not everything is black and white was more my point. I've said he's been mostly good at pressing but he doesn't seem to do that intense pressing in the biggest games. Simply a fair analysis. Saying he's been outright great or terrible with pressing would just be false.

  13. #23293
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    Quote Originally Posted by malvolio View Post


    up until now the discussion was that he doesn't press much and that hinders our defensive play. now that we look at the numbers and we see that he is pretty much in line with other forwards, he is not pressing when we want or against who we want. what next boys? he can't do it on a wet, windy wednesday night in stoke?

    His pressing numbers have gone up this season, find those for the previous ones - they were lower. Anyway, I dont have a problem with Messi?s defensive work rate as long as he is the only one doing less work as the CF in the defensive phase. Only pressing strikers like Firmino have high numbers in that area. My gripe was that we had two such players for years that made the first defensive line of pressing non-existent. Without Suarez, it is okay.

  14. #23294
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    People are very weird on this forum.They like bums like Dumbele, but they hate on Messi, our best player ever and the sole reason we are in top 4 this season.I question their sanity.

  15. #23295
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    Mascherano: '' I would never dare to give Leo advice. It is a personal decision that he will have to decide within his family. As a friend I will support the decision I make.”


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    Update

    Two missions:

    1. Winning la liga title

    2. Winning Copa final

    Lets do it guys !!!

    The fantastic four: Me, BarcaOG, Kingleo10, Vilarrubi, NO rassvet

    My achievements since joining this forum: Barcaforum d'Or 2021 - Thanks for this fantastic trophy, i hope to win it again next year.