Ousmane Dembélé
- Thread starter Devils
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Messigician
Senior Member
On WhoScored Messi is the 3rd best player itw this season only behind Lewandowski and Mbappe, ahead of Benzema and Salah. You figure it out.
Shame on you whoscored
Dembele also has a better dribbling success rate than Salah, Neymar at his peak, Messi, Di Maria, and so on. Excel spreadsheet merchants would look at this and claim Dembele is a better dribbler and/or is at least equal to the players I listed.
But all you have to do is watch the game and watch the kind of dribbles these players attempt at a regular basis. Dembele goes for the low risk, high success rate sprinting on the sidelines to use his pace to beat his man type of dribbling, in acres of open space.
The players I listed are more prone to using their dribbling in the box or to get past players in tighter areas. Much more riskier type of dribbling that requires far more control with the ball, and creativity as well.
Use your stats as much as you want, all I have to do is watch a Real Madrid and Barcelona game to conclude who amongst Vinicius and Dembele has better control, technique, and purpose/lethality with their dribbling.
Bobo32
Senior Member
No if it is false I do not know it. Vinicius was on 0,34 or something per game this season, and Dembele on about 0,32 over his Barcelona carreer, from memory.
There isn't a big difference in the stat you don't really get anyway.
Stats never paint the full story. Dembele makes many funny blunders and even more unfunny blunders. He attempts many long passes and he is not that great at them. He misses more than 4 long passes per game while a very similar winger type in Vinicius misses 1 every other game. A very big difference, and something that will have an effect of their teams. Does Dembeles many long passes often have a good effect on the team when he does NOT miss them? I think they rarely do.
I never really liked de Bruyne that much either, but he is an example of a player licensed to take risks, and I think he is good enough to warrant that license, contrary to Dembele.
feggydinho
Senior Member
You can't just use stats when it suits you plus Neymar and Messi have had far better-dribbling success rate than Dembele in their peaks (above 65%), Neymar success rate right now is 49% which is realistic cause he's declined and you'll notice it if you watch his games, Dembele is easily a better dribbler than Salah (no competition there)
Bobo32
Senior Member
Dembele is a decent dribbler in isolation, it can't be contested. He dribbles past the first man with no problem when he is given the entire outer corridor in a 1v1. He can feint himself past that defender another time too, and be steered inwards and dribble past another guy, too. He can often have 3 succesful dribbles in one sequence. Problem is, after that he either continues to dribble his way back to from where he began, dribbles into the fourth man to give the ball away for a counter, tries to shoot (20% of the time on target, twice this season in goal), tries a hero pass that sometimes works but most often do not, or fails with even the simplest pass.
I wouldn't be surprised if even a majority of Barcelona attacks lately end with Dembele. Aubameyang, Depay and even Torres are a bit too much alike Dembele in risk taking too, though, so maybe not a majority today, but it would have been a clear majority of Barcelonas attacks if it had been in 2012.
feggydinho
Senior Member
You've got a point if we're only focused on dribbles in tight spaces in the box, but dribbling success generally has to do with dribbling in different areas (tight spaces, in the box, with space etc)
To me the only stat that matters to forwards is goals. You have never seen me quote this success rate, xA, xG, nonsense to rate and justify my like for a forward. Rarely ever.
And lol Salah. Here we go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ68OskGqow
Link me to Dembele scoring a goal with this level of control and composure on the ball. Just because Salah doesn't spend every waking moment of the match sprinting and crossing attempting to beat his man doesn't mean he's the inferior dribbler.
Here's another one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWmZm-EIAsg
Another one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecs6BHg9Kag
This is quality your "expected dribbles, progressive carries, successful dribbles rate, dribbles per game" aren't capturing. This is quality that Salah produces on a regular basis. You can probably get 10 instances of him producing this sort of quality within a season, with 4 or so of those instances leading to goals. There are about 10 goals of this type that Salah has scored since his arrival in 2017/2018.
There's not one instance of Dembele ever dribbling at this level of quality and control in his entire tenure at Barcelona, Dortmund, or Rennes. Spinning and feinting past 3 players whilst the ball is glued to your feet without ANY need for pace whatsoever. This is a goal that all great dribblers can do. Neymar does this, Messi did it, Ribery did it, and so on.
Dembele has never and will never be able to do it. Because what he does is not "true dribbling", it's just using his pace to outrun his marker. Technique at an elite level is something he doesn't have.
Dembele may have an instance of exhibiting close control with the ball once every 40 matches or so, but he will never have the composure and awareness to GUIDE the ball into perceived "closed areas" of space to open them and turn those areas into lethal areas of space. Dribbling is not just about technique and pace, but also about spatial awareness and composure. It's what allows Ribery, Salah, Messi, and....Vinicius Jr to score goals like these. The lack of it is what keeps Dembele spraying crosses from the corner flag. This is what your stats aren't capturing. They only reward volume and attempts, not quality.
Excel spreadsheets with your successful dribbling rates and dribbles per game will call Dembele the superior dribbler. People who watch the actual games will say otherwise.
And on top of it all, Salah adds goals to it like a true forward should. The only stat that should matter.
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Fati_Future_BallonDor
Well-known member
Don't know who has better stats on paper but watching both players Vini has been better than Dembele this season. Vini was one of the main men who lead Real Madrid to the final.
feggydinho
Senior Member
I don't need excel spreadsheets to know that dembele is a better dribbler than Salah, I watch both of them and its not a debate (mind you dribbling is not all there is to football but some things are as clear as daylight like Salah being a far better finisher with better positioning and dembele being a better dribbler)
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Iniesta Ultra
Senior Member
What if he stays.
All you have to do is provide me with 3 videos of Dembele exhibiting close control, gliding past 3 players the way Salah does in the videos I linked; if you want to convince me otherwise. If he's a better dribbler, then you should easily be able to provide examples. I asked this last time this conversation came up and no one provided me with examples. I'll be asking again, I want to see these examples.
I will reiterate, what Dembele does isn't "dribbling", it's outrunning his opponents with absurd pace. Give Ousmane Dembele Ribery's or even Di Maria's pace, and he's no longer a 1st division player. His actual technique is horrible for a winger. Doesn't utilize skills, control, or creativity to beat his opponents. It's kick and run. Kick and run. Kick and run. And the occasional fake shot and nutmeg.
I genuinely think you have to be absurd and borderline insane to consider this fraud in anyway a better dribbler than Salah.
feggydinho
Senior Member
You can think what you want but stats are there for a reason, Usain Bolt is the fastest man, and stats back it up. Dribbling is about getting past a player, and I never needed stats to know that Dembele is a better dribbler cause it was obvious by just watching them. Now going by stats Dembele has a 63.3% success rate, Salah has a 41.8% success rate, and Messi 65% success rate, now if the difference between Dembele and Salah was 5-10% i would understand but it's a clear 20% plus difference so i dont even understand your argument. Salah being better than Dembele overall is valid but in dribbling!! That's a big lie and you know it
te amo barca
Blaugrana al vent
Dembele is obviously better at beating his man than Salah, it is not even a controversial take. Laplacian has a habit of going to extremes, Dembele is his latest victim - went from twerking for him to thinking he is worse than the likes of Rashford
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