FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
Good point, totally forgot about that.
Ousmane Dembélé
- Thread starter Devils
- Start date
Good point, totally forgot about that.
FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
and he is exciting to watch. Listen Camp Nou every time he gets the ball in open space. Awesome.
FCB1987
Banned
having two equally bad feet doesn't make a player two footed
Imagine trying to use a YouTube video to explain why you rate a player.
Every player looks like a Ballon D'or contender in highlight comps.
Take a gander at this Adama video for instance:
[youtube]2s1UvSc6sCE[/youtube]
Surely better than Messi...
Exactly, those compilations use one or two moments from a single match and ignore everything else. Why not for example, use "every touch" compilations of match performances instead? I'll even be nice and go for the Spurs and PSV games:
[youtube]MSlMTrIO4R0[/youtube]
[youtube]RUpsxekvkUY[/youtube]
Complains about inconsistent quality of touches, bad decision making, and bad close control dribbling suddenly becomes a little more plausible. Then i can show things like these:
[youtube]9_8tOn-SjUY[/youtube]
or
[youtube]asetqQv4Stk[/youtube]
Obviously I'm not being fair, I'm just showing why people shouldn't act all condescending and [insert laughing emojis] when people question Dembele's technique.
snowy
New member
He's like the Pink Panther, all the big clubs hoping Board will do a doodoo and trade him out. I'm not worried though as Barto said our 11 is off-limits. Hope it won't create xtra pressure from the media though~
yo Lap, seems it's more about the forum users being condescending then. Maybe deep down, you really like the Bouzeman
BBZ8800
Senior Member
An interesting question:
People here are saying that EV is an idiot for playing:
Griezmann-Suarez-Messi, and that a WAAAAAY BETTER (and the most logical) option would be:
Dembele-Griezmann as a Cf-Messi
Then, WHY is Deschamps doing the same:
He could have played:
Dembele-Griezmann as a Cf-Mbappe, which is more or less the same as Dembele-Griezmann-Messi at Barca.
Yet, a stupid Deschamps picked exactly the same attacking combination with:
Griezmann-Giroud (similar to Suarez) as a Cf-Mbappe
My point:
When a season will start and when EV will play Griezmann-Suarez-Messi, people will say that EV is an idiot for not playing "an obvious" combination: Dembele-Griezmann-Messi.
And yet, Deschamps is doing the same with rather benching Dembele than losing a No9 who can't do too much (Giroud).
So, a question is:
1. 2 Dembele's coaches are benching him for a true No9 in attack
2. Barcaforum's experts have a different "obvious pick"
Which one is more likely:
1. EV and Deschamps are both idiots
2. Barcaforum is biased and would just try to squeeze Dembele into any lineup
People here are saying that EV is an idiot for playing:
Griezmann-Suarez-Messi, and that a WAAAAAY BETTER (and the most logical) option would be:
Dembele-Griezmann as a Cf-Messi
Then, WHY is Deschamps doing the same:
He could have played:
Dembele-Griezmann as a Cf-Mbappe, which is more or less the same as Dembele-Griezmann-Messi at Barca.
Yet, a stupid Deschamps picked exactly the same attacking combination with:
Griezmann-Giroud (similar to Suarez) as a Cf-Mbappe
My point:
When a season will start and when EV will play Griezmann-Suarez-Messi, people will say that EV is an idiot for not playing "an obvious" combination: Dembele-Griezmann-Messi.
And yet, Deschamps is doing the same with rather benching Dembele than losing a No9 who can't do too much (Giroud).
So, a question is:
1. 2 Dembele's coaches are benching him for a true No9 in attack
2. Barcaforum's experts have a different "obvious pick"
Which one is more likely:
1. EV and Deschamps are both idiots
2. Barcaforum is biased and would just try to squeeze Dembele into any lineup
I actually agree. Dembele-Griezmann-Messi could work, but I wouldnt be too shocked if it didnt. Dembele is one of those wingers who need a striker for reference. Substitute Neymar for Dembele and it looks more cohesive (not saying I want Neymar).
Our squad planning is just weird. Whats the plan? Griezmann-Suarez-Messi? Doesnt look too convincing.
Our squad planning is just weird. Whats the plan? Griezmann-Suarez-Messi? Doesnt look too convincing.
MTL_Barca
Well-known member
Deschamps also put Gtiezmann on his favorite position as a 2nd striker instead of playing him as a LW so idk where you're trying to get here because the comparison isn't as accurate as you claim it to be.
Griezmann is the best French attacker so he is the main man = plays where he is best. Thats why Giroud got in even though he contributed little to nothing.
But 4 attackers was way too offensive for French Valverde so Dembele got kicked to play fucking Matuidi as LW. Or is your argument Dembele lost his spot because he is a worse LW than Matuidi? It's not always about what player is better in a vaccuum.
You always try to twist this into an proof of why Dembele sucks and got dropped for being shit when in reality it was most likely mainly about Griezmann not working out as a CF for France. Of course Dembele also didn't perform that well, but France changed the whole setup instead of just replacing him with another LW so that can't be the main reason.
Will this also be the case at Barca? Who knows. Maybe. I mean one of the main concerns people have over his signing is that his prime position doesn't really exist at Barca so not an unpopular opinion and the reason why i personally don't think he'll play there, at least with Valverde as a coach.
Will Griezmann be the better LW than Dembele? You will say yes 100% because he isn't mentally handicapped like Dembele, but you can't say that for sure. I think what most people "fear" is that Valverde won't even give Dembele a fair chance under these circumstances. That he will just stick to experience and big names and doesn't even consider phasing out Suarez and as a result Suarez will continue to start every game no matter how tired he is or how bad he plays while Griezmann gets shoehorned into playing LW no matter how he fits there just because he is a new big name signing and proven world class player.
If Suarez plays fantastic again and Griezmann performs strong as LW there isn't much to argue honestly. Or if Griezmann horribly fails as CF but still outperforms Dembele as LW. But again, it's more about the thought that Valverde may not even try to make it work and just instantly benches Dembele because he doesn't like him to begin with and doesn't want to go against the big names. Just like you seem to not even consider it as an option and would always bench Dembele first, thats the mindset people here expect from Valverde as well.
Could be funny if Neymar returns as well tho. I mean would Ernesto "balance" Valverde play 4 strikers to fit all big names? Would he just bench Griezmann? Or would he dare to touch MSN? Poor Ernie probably just wants to play 4-4-2 in peace and the board keeps signing 100+ mil forwards
Griezmann is the best French attacker so he is the main man = plays where he is best. Thats why Giroud got in even though he contributed little to nothing.
But 4 attackers was way too offensive for French Valverde so Dembele got kicked to play fucking Matuidi as LW. Or is your argument Dembele lost his spot because he is a worse LW than Matuidi? It's not always about what player is better in a vaccuum.
You always try to twist this into an proof of why Dembele sucks and got dropped for being shit when in reality it was most likely mainly about Griezmann not working out as a CF for France. Of course Dembele also didn't perform that well, but France changed the whole setup instead of just replacing him with another LW so that can't be the main reason.
Will this also be the case at Barca? Who knows. Maybe. I mean one of the main concerns people have over his signing is that his prime position doesn't really exist at Barca so not an unpopular opinion and the reason why i personally don't think he'll play there, at least with Valverde as a coach.
Will Griezmann be the better LW than Dembele? You will say yes 100% because he isn't mentally handicapped like Dembele, but you can't say that for sure. I think what most people "fear" is that Valverde won't even give Dembele a fair chance under these circumstances. That he will just stick to experience and big names and doesn't even consider phasing out Suarez and as a result Suarez will continue to start every game no matter how tired he is or how bad he plays while Griezmann gets shoehorned into playing LW no matter how he fits there just because he is a new big name signing and proven world class player.
If Suarez plays fantastic again and Griezmann performs strong as LW there isn't much to argue honestly. Or if Griezmann horribly fails as CF but still outperforms Dembele as LW. But again, it's more about the thought that Valverde may not even try to make it work and just instantly benches Dembele because he doesn't like him to begin with and doesn't want to go against the big names. Just like you seem to not even consider it as an option and would always bench Dembele first, thats the mindset people here expect from Valverde as well.
Could be funny if Neymar returns as well tho. I mean would Ernesto "balance" Valverde play 4 strikers to fit all big names? Would he just bench Griezmann? Or would he dare to touch MSN? Poor Ernie probably just wants to play 4-4-2 in peace and the board keeps signing 100+ mil forwards
Last edited:
Bulgroz
Senior Member
An interesting question:
People here are saying that EV is an idiot for playing:
Griezmann-Suarez-Messi, and that a WAAAAAY BETTER (and the most logical) option would be:
Dembele-Griezmann as a Cf-Messi
Then, WHY is Deschamps doing the same:
He could have played:
Dembele-Griezmann as a Cf-Mbappe, which is more or less the same as Dembele-Griezmann-Messi at Barca.
Yet, a stupid Deschamps picked exactly the same attacking combination with:
Griezmann-Giroud (similar to Suarez) as a Cf-Mbappe
My point:
When a season will start and when EV will play Griezmann-Suarez-Messi, people will say that EV is an idiot for not playing "an obvious" combination: Dembele-Griezmann-Messi.
And yet, Deschamps is doing the same with rather benching Dembele than losing a No9 who can't do too much (Giroud).
So, a question is:
1. 2 Dembele's coaches are benching him for a true No9 in attack
2. Barcaforum's experts have a different "obvious pick"
Which one is more likely:
1. EV and Deschamps are both idiots
2. Barcaforum is biased and would just try to squeeze Dembele into any lineup
As mentioned by MTL_Barca, Deschamps doesn't play Griezmann on LW. He plays Matuidi. And he plays Matuidi not because he's a better winger than Dembele, but because:
- Mbappe already defends very little (he's probably even worse than Dembele on that aspect), and Deschamps doesn't want to have 2 players who are only on the pitch to attack. Since he has to pick only one of those, he's picking Mbappe, because he's overall the better player of the two right now (by a hefty margin, which doesn't mean that Dembele sucks, just that Mbappe is very special). Bear in mind that it doesn't mean you can NEVER have two wingers who hardly defend. It only means that Deschamps doesn't like it, especially during the most important tournament in the world, and especially if you want one of your two midfielders (Pogba) to be able to take risks. The whole thing is about balance anyway. And it's silly to compare NT football to club football. NT coaches can't prepare with the group everyday during training all year long. It's not the same job at all (just read the many interviews of coaches saying exactly that), and you don't take the same risks when planning a strategy.
- We played the whole WC with a LB and a RB who hardly played any match for France before the tournament, because of injuries/lack of form from the usual starters. Playing very offensive wingers on both sides would have been suicidal under those circumstances. Hence Matuidi.
Potroh
New member
I personally doubt EV would be an idiot, he is just a bad coach.
Deschamps on the other hand is a clever coach.
He took a very high RISK by playing Giroud at the WC all the time and he got lucky, because finally it payed off for him.
But situations are very different, Deschamps could afford playing the usually horrible Giroud in order to take away a few defenders in the front, but he has very good other players to score, like Pogba, and never forget please, that Deschamps actually plays with FOUR attackers, which Valverde wouldn't even do if he was under a heavy doze of dopamine...
BBZ8800
Senior Member
My point is that if Dembele were that good and important for France, Deschamps would have found a place for him.
But he is not that good from obvious reasons=because he is NOT that good, as our fans think.
Mbappe, regardless who is in a team and whether a coach plays 442, 433 or 4231, a coach will always find a place for Mbappe.
The same as for Griezmann.
But when it comes to Dembele, well.. coaches are not open to play him no matter what and will play him ONLY in a specific circumstances.
Interesting, right?
Regarding Giroud, his stats are bad, but his role was a key.
All big WC teams had a similar classic Cf: France Giroud, Croatia Mandzukic, Belgium Lukaku, England Kane.
Real won 4 CLs in 5 years with Benzema as a CF.
Barca won their last CL in 2015 with Suarez as a CF.
This season, with Liverpool, we have the first team since Pep who actually won in a CL, World cups or Euros WITHOUT a true CF.
So, numbers and stats say that the easiest and the most likely way to win a titles is by having a good, old classic CF in your 3 man attack.
And then, we have Barca forum, who, as always goes by emotions and against any logic, and they are asking to play the opposite of a proven formula in the last 7-8 years:
= to drop a classical CF Suarez, and to play Griezmann who is not a classical Cf, or to play soon to be 33 years old, tired, slower and lazy Messi as a false 9.
Sounds like a plan...
Not to mention that:
1. the whole team plays better with a true 9 in the box
2. that Messi plays better with a true 9 in the box
3. that Griezmann plays better with a true 9 in the box (Costa, Giroud)
But again, let's do against logic and let's create a havoc so that a forum favorite Dembele can play.
You are now hailing Deschamps and his midfielders who can score.
And when I was writing 200 000 lines about how Frenkie-Arthur-Busi is too sterile and is good only for recycling possession, without too much use in the attacking 3rd (except Frenkie), then people get mad.
Busquets: 47 matches last season, 0 goals, 2 assists
Arthur: 36 matches, 0 goals, 1 assist
Frenkie: 42 matches, 3 goals, 3 assists
= total: 3 goals, 6 assists
The worst midfielder in the history of universe:
= 46 matches, 4 goals, 7 assists
The worst midfielder in a history of universe alone has more goals+assists than these 3 guys combined.
But hey, let's play against a parked bus with:
Dembele-Griezz-Messi, without a true 9. What could possibly go wrong? Forum asked for it, it HAS to be a good idea.
Let's play Busi-Frenkie-Arthur. There is no way that we will be sterile. Forum guarantees for this trio, paired with Dembele in attack. Magic and fireworks are guaranteed.
And let's add another favorite, Semedo as a RB, who can do absolutely NOTHING in attack. What could go wrong?
Maybe some of us are not just hating players and being opposite of a popular opinion for no reason.
Because popular opinions for a forum are often crazy, illogical and totally driven by emotions, hope for the future and a love towards younger players.
But he is not that good from obvious reasons=because he is NOT that good, as our fans think.
Mbappe, regardless who is in a team and whether a coach plays 442, 433 or 4231, a coach will always find a place for Mbappe.
The same as for Griezmann.
But when it comes to Dembele, well.. coaches are not open to play him no matter what and will play him ONLY in a specific circumstances.
Interesting, right?
Regarding Giroud, his stats are bad, but his role was a key.
All big WC teams had a similar classic Cf: France Giroud, Croatia Mandzukic, Belgium Lukaku, England Kane.
Real won 4 CLs in 5 years with Benzema as a CF.
Barca won their last CL in 2015 with Suarez as a CF.
This season, with Liverpool, we have the first team since Pep who actually won in a CL, World cups or Euros WITHOUT a true CF.
So, numbers and stats say that the easiest and the most likely way to win a titles is by having a good, old classic CF in your 3 man attack.
And then, we have Barca forum, who, as always goes by emotions and against any logic, and they are asking to play the opposite of a proven formula in the last 7-8 years:
= to drop a classical CF Suarez, and to play Griezmann who is not a classical Cf, or to play soon to be 33 years old, tired, slower and lazy Messi as a false 9.
Sounds like a plan...
Not to mention that:
1. the whole team plays better with a true 9 in the box
2. that Messi plays better with a true 9 in the box
3. that Griezmann plays better with a true 9 in the box (Costa, Giroud)
But again, let's do against logic and let's create a havoc so that a forum favorite Dembele can play.
You are now hailing Deschamps and his midfielders who can score.
And when I was writing 200 000 lines about how Frenkie-Arthur-Busi is too sterile and is good only for recycling possession, without too much use in the attacking 3rd (except Frenkie), then people get mad.
Busquets: 47 matches last season, 0 goals, 2 assists
Arthur: 36 matches, 0 goals, 1 assist
Frenkie: 42 matches, 3 goals, 3 assists
= total: 3 goals, 6 assists
The worst midfielder in the history of universe:
= 46 matches, 4 goals, 7 assists
The worst midfielder in a history of universe alone has more goals+assists than these 3 guys combined.
But hey, let's play against a parked bus with:
Dembele-Griezz-Messi, without a true 9. What could possibly go wrong? Forum asked for it, it HAS to be a good idea.
Let's play Busi-Frenkie-Arthur. There is no way that we will be sterile. Forum guarantees for this trio, paired with Dembele in attack. Magic and fireworks are guaranteed.
And let's add another favorite, Semedo as a RB, who can do absolutely NOTHING in attack. What could go wrong?
Maybe some of us are not just hating players and being opposite of a popular opinion for no reason.
Because popular opinions for a forum are often crazy, illogical and totally driven by emotions, hope for the future and a love towards younger players.
clemente
New member
An interesting question:
People here are saying that EV is an idiot for playing:
Griezmann-Suarez-Messi, and that a WAAAAAY BETTER (and the most logical) option would be:
Dembele-Griezmann as a Cf-Messi
Then, WHY is Deschamps doing the same:
He could have played:
Dembele-Griezmann as a Cf-Mbappe, which is more or less the same as Dembele-Griezmann-Messi at Barca.
Yet, a stupid Deschamps picked exactly the same attacking combination with:
Griezmann-Giroud (similar to Suarez) as a Cf-Mbappe
My point:
When a season will start and when EV will play Griezmann-Suarez-Messi, people will say that EV is an idiot for not playing "an obvious" combination: Dembele-Griezmann-Messi.
And yet, Deschamps is doing the same with rather benching Dembele than losing a No9 who can't do too much (Giroud).
So, a question is:
1. 2 Dembele's coaches are benching him for a true No9 in attack
2. Barcaforum's experts have a different "obvious pick"
Which one is more likely:
1. EV and Deschamps are both idiots
2. Barcaforum is biased and would just try to squeeze Dembele into any lineup
Lmao Deschamps is almost as bad as EV, laughable comparison, sums up how much grasp you have of french NT, before winning the tournament they wanted him out, he has the most insane team and depth I've ever seen, same how EV and Lucho don't need tactics with the teams they had.
Bulgroz
Senior Member
I have a good grasp of french NT, for obvious reasons, and very few people here think Deschamps is a bad coach. Some people wanted him out before the WC for several reasons:
- Overall, boring playstyle (which is true, but he's always been a defensive coach);
- Playing Giroud instead of Benzema.
A lot of people still believed in Deschamps, because while being a defensive coach, he's also clever and knows how to get the best from his players. He got Monaco to a UCL final (kicking Madrid's and Chelsea's asses on the way) in 2004. Go look at the squad he had back then and tell me he had "an insane team". He helped Marseille win their first league title in 20 years with players who mostly disappeared into oblivion a couple years after. He reached Euro 2016's final, losing it by a tiny margin, after eliminating a Germany side which was the n°1 favorite. And he won the WC, granted with an amazing squad, but go and ask any of Argentina's coach over the last 20 years if "having a great squad" gets you a guaranteed win. You can think his playstyle is boring, but there's no denying he's a very good coach.
Doesn't mean he's always right though. You can find plenty of examples of great coaches who didn't click with a great player. Just like the fact that Benzema or Lacazette are not in the squad doesn't mean that Giroud is better, the fact that Dembele is a sub doesn't mean that he's a lesser player than Matuidi or Giroud.
I obviously agree with him though when he says that Mbappe is in a different class right now, as I've always said here (and I don't know many people would disagree honestly).
Potroh
New member
It was mentioned earlier that even the French team would be in tactical trouble with two fast wingers as Dembele and Mbappe.
Deschamps rather risked playing Giroud and he won, a bit luckily so.
Your agenda against Dembele is rather domestic, as if you consider the entire "football world", he has quite a good reputation for his raw talents and qualities.
Dembele would be THE new star on the horizon - if - he could regularly do what he is capable of doing.
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