14 - João Félix

Sorin

Sorin

Well-known member
Judoman said:
Most likely that is true.
But...Even if this kid is not on Griezmann level in 3 years, his value will most likely be at least on same level as it is now. I doubt the same can be said for Griezmann. If Griezmann doesn t work out, we are
at a loss---->Coutinho. If this kid doesn t work out, there is a high chance he can still be sold at 0 loss or even profit.
Neither of these guys are true strikers. We have WF/wingers, we don t need to add more, unless Malcom/Coutinho gets sold.
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Ok, agreed. Now let me float something totally insane by you. How about we don't spend 120 on either Felix or Griezmann? One is unproven as hell and his strongest position is Messi's position almost, same argument used in favour of not bringing Griezmann in funnily enough but don't see the argument used for the Portuguese for some reason. And Griezmann comes with a huge wage and plays as a 10 or second striker, same as Messi.
 
MTL_Barca

MTL_Barca

Well-known member
Sorin said:
Ok, agreed. Now let me float something totally insane by you. How about we don't spend 120 on either Felix or Griezmann? One is unproven as hell and his strongest position is Messi's position almost, same argument used in favour of not bringing Griezmann in funnily enough but don't see the argument used for the Portuguese for some reason. And Griezmann comes with a huge wage and plays as a 10 or second striker, same as Messi.
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Felix is more than 8 years younger, he would still be here once Messi declines and retires. Griezmann on the other hand would be more of a short term investment to get more out of Messi the next 2-3 years, so them occupying the same space could be more of a concern because once Messi needs a replacement Griezmann will be 30+ as well.

Felix being right footed would also mean he could play LW/striker hybrid better than left footed Griezmann.

I think you can make arguments for both, future potential or current class. But yeah we also don't have to buy a 120M player this summer, so it's not like this decision between two has to be made anyway. My biggest problem with Griezmann (besides the way he handled the situation last summer) is the insane salary he get's at Atletico since he renewed.
 
George_Costanza

George_Costanza

Active member
Sorin said:
One is unproven as hell and his strongest position is Messi's position .
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Just no. He isn't # 10 although he can play it. All of his goals were scored within the 18-yard-box, he actually reminds me of younger Suarez at Liverpool a creative and goal scorer striker. Griezmann can only function playing behind the striker(s) assisting the build-up, dictating the play and creating chances just like Messi.
 
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J

Judoman

Senior Member
Sorin said:
Ok, agreed. Now let me float something totally insane by you. How about we don't spend 120 on either Felix or Griezmann? One is unproven as hell and his strongest position is Messi's position almost, same argument used in favour of not bringing Griezmann in funnily enough but don't see the argument used for the Portuguese for some reason. And Griezmann comes with a huge wage and plays as a 10 or second striker, same as Messi.
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I m not hot about neither of these two and i agree with all what you said.
The problem is, striker market right now is about risk. I don t see any clear cut choice, so we are just debating different, not ideal options. All are expensive.

I think it s easier for a young guy to adjust to current situation, than it would be for a player like Griezmann. He would probably expect to be a starter. So in this case, who is going to sit on a bench? Probably Dembele. I think Dembele can match
Griezmann production when he is on 100% (personal opinion). If Griezmann can play the way Suarez does (but better) he is more than welcome as far as i m concern.
 
Sorin

Sorin

Well-known member
MTL_Barca said:
Felix is more than 8 years younger, he would still be here once Messi declines and retires. Griezmann on the other hand would be more of a short term investment to get more out of Messi the next 2-3 years, so them occupying the same space could be more of a concern because once Messi needs a replacement Griezmann will be 30+ as well.

Felix being right footed would also mean he could play LW/striker hybrid better than left footed Griezmann.

I think you can make arguments for both, future potential or current class. But yeah we also don't have to buy a 120M player this summer, so it's not like this decision between two has to be made anyway. My biggest problem with Griezmann (besides the way he handled the situation last summer) is the insane salary he get's at Atletico since he renewed.
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And do you have absolute certainty that he'll be so good that he'll be here after Messi retires?

George_Costanza said:
Just no. He isn't # 10 although he can play it. All of his goals were scored within the 18-yard-box, he actually reminds me of younger Suarez at Liverpool a creative and goal scorer striker. Griezmann can only function playing behind the striker(s) assisting the build-up, dictating the play and creating chances just like Messi.
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Should have been more clear: some of his strengths overlap with Messi such as starting actions from deeper, not having the ability to play lone striker with Messi still in the team and all that jazz. Feel free to disagree, I don't see him helping us very much with what we need right now. He also plays with a more traditional striker in Seferovic and some of his best games recently have come with the partnership with a classic striker.

And dude, chill, he's only done it for one season in the portuguese league with some flashes here and there in europa league. 120m is absolutely insane money for him. I mean you didn't even know the guy 4 months ago and now we should pay 120m for him? It's not taking a punt anymore at this point, it's full blown world class player type of money.
 
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MTL_Barca

MTL_Barca

Well-known member
Sorin said:
And do you have absolute certainty that he'll be so good that he'll be here after Messi retires?
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What? Of course he is a huge gamble right now. But this wasn't about quality, it was about the space he plays. Just for the record i think signing Felix now is pretty crazy from a financial standpoint.

Even at 100+ mil Felix would still be more some kind of investment for the future. He wouldn't be an instant starter but that would be ok because he's still so young. Even if he would conflict with Messi a little bit it wouldn't be that catastrophic because Messi won't be here forever and by the time he will eventually start to decline Felix would only be like 21 and ideally (again, no gurantee at all for this to happen) could take over his more or less free role in the center. Of course it would still suck if we sign him as a Suarez replacement and it doesn't work out that well.

Griezmann on the other hand is the much better player now, meaning it has to work from the start. So if he wouldn't work well with Messi it would be pretty bad.

I don't necessarily think that both or one of them can't play as a striker next to Messi, i'm just saying that i think it would be a bigger problem for Griezmann than for Felix simply because Griezmanns prime here would be at a time Messi will still be here.
 
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George_Costanza

George_Costanza

Active member
Sorin said:
Should have been more clear: some of his strengths overlap with Messi such as starting actions from deeper, not having the ability to play lone striker with Messi still in the team and all that jazz. Feel free to disagree, I don't see him helping us very much with what we need right now. He also plays with a more traditional striker in Seferovic and some of his best games recently have come with the partnership with a classic striker.

And dude, chill, he's only done it for one season in the portuguese league with some flashes here and there in europa league. 120m is absolutely insane money for him. I mean you didn't even know the guy 4 months ago and now we should pay 120m for him? It's not taking a punt anymore at this point, it's full blown world class player type of money.
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Bro, I think you the one who should chill, I already said 120m is high and we should get him cheaper. The point was he won't occupy Messi's position like Griezmann. We should start looking for Suarez replacement, not Messi and he is perfect, more perfect than Jovic. Think of Jovic is more like Lewandowski and Felix more like Saurez/Aguero. Which of them is more suitable for Barca?
 
D

Donatello

Active member
MTL_Barca said:
Felix is more than 8 years younger, he would still be here once Messi declines and retires. Griezmann on the other hand would be more of a short term investment to get more out of Messi the next 2-3 years, so them occupying the same space could be more of a concern because once Messi needs a replacement Griezmann will be 30+ as well.

Felix being right footed would also mean he could play LW/striker hybrid better than left footed Griezmann.

I think you can make arguments for both, future potential or current class. But yeah we also don't have to buy a 120M player this summer, so it's not like this decision between two has to be made anyway. My biggest problem with Griezmann (besides the way he handled the situation last summer) is the insane salary he get's at Atletico since he renewed.
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Completely agree, great post.
 
D

Donatello

Active member
Sorin said:
Should have been more clear: some of his strengths overlap with Messi such as starting actions from deeper, not having the ability to play lone striker with Messi still in the team and all that jazz. Feel free to disagree, I don't see him helping us very much with what we need right now. He also plays with a more traditional striker in Seferovic and some of his best games recently have come with the partnership with a classic striker.
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Same holds true for Griezmann as well. In France, he has Giroud, at Atleti he has Costa/Morata.

He isn't a lone striker either.
 
A

Arizona Scott

New member
Alik said:
This 1000 times.
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Yes, 4 good quality league matches per year for Benfica.

In fact the middle to lower part of the league has far less investment per club than the leagues in Brazil, Russia, Netherlands or Mexico.

Remember Bas Dost almost stole a golden boot from Messi playing his trade there.
 
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Neeraj

Neeraj

Senior Member
I'm all for signing bright young talent, and in today's market, you've got to pay the premium unless your scouting is good enough to get them early.

Having said that, paying anywhere close to 100 million euros for some kid playing in a crappy league seems absolutely bonkers. There are some clubs who are beyond desperate, let them fight it out. There's no way we should be paying that kind of money for him. What are the odds he is actually 'worth 100 million at 19' good?


Even if he turns out to be amazing, I'd much rather we pay 170 million for him when he wants to move to a bigger club, in a few years time, or 200, or whatever that number is, than taking such an enormous gamble. There's very, very, few players who are worth anywhere near that much at 19 and I think only Neymar and maybe Mbappe who have shown skill warranting that kind of money.
 
P

Porque

Senior Member
Whats Benfica's biggest sales? Around the 30m mark for the likes of Ederson, Semedo, Talisca. I'm pretty sure they are trying their luck off of a few factors such as Joao's sudden form, crazy market inflation and the 120m to create the perception of his high transfer fee.

But perhaps he won't be as expensive as anticipated. The Liverpool January offer could even be manufactured.
 
Sorin

Sorin

Well-known member
MTL_Barca said:
What? Of course he is a huge gamble right now. But this wasn't about quality, it was about the space he plays. Just for the record i think signing Felix now is pretty crazy from a financial standpoint

Even at 100+ mil Felix would still be more some kind of investment for the future. He wouldn't be an instant starter but that would be ok because he's still so young. Even if he would conflict with Messi a little bit it wouldn't be that catastrophic because Messi won't be here forever and by the time he will eventually start to decline Felix would only be like 21 and ideally (again, no gurantee at all for this to happen) could take over his more or less free role in the center. Of course it would still suck if we sign him as a Suarez replacement and it doesn't work out that well.

Griezmann on the other hand is the much better player now, meaning it has to work from the start. So if he wouldn't work well with Messi it would be pretty bad.

I don't necessarily think that both or one of them can't play as a striker next to Messi, i'm just saying that i think it would be a bigger problem for Griezmann than for Felix simply because Griezmanns prime here would be at a time Messi will still be here.
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Ok we seem to agree on almost everything.

I simply don't think he will mesh with Messi at all and for 2 or 3 years that will be a problem. Anything above 60m and it's a highway robbery.


George_Costanza said:
Bro, I think you the one who should chill, I already said 120m is high and we should get him cheaper. The point was he won't occupy Messi's position like Griezmann. We should start looking for Suarez replacement, not Messi and he is perfect, more perfect than Jovic. Think of Jovic is more like Lewandowski and Felix more like Saurez/Aguero. Which of them is more suitable for Barca?
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But you see, price is the point since his value/quality doesn't match the level of money we'll have to pay for him. Doesn't matter if he is Suarez' replacement or Messi's. With City, United, Liverpool or Juventus after him we can forget about getting him cheaper. Maybe the price will not hit 100m but anything above 50-60m is too much for him and I honestly don't see the fee going lower than 90m with all bonuses included.

Suarez aside what's so different about Aguero and Lewandowski from a style point of view?
 
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