21 - Frenkie de Jong

Both him and Pedri runs too much, and too little...
As Cruyff said: you can only arrive at the right place in one moment, if you are not there then you are either too early or too late.
Frenkie is often too early or too late, and then he often waits or runs away, getting too early or too late in the next situation as well...

He is speaking a bit less humbly lately, saying he doesn't agree with the critique he gets etc. From the outside it looks a bit concerning tbh, and I think he is in BIG need of a coach that can humble him and make him very concerned about the details of his game. He has looked to be very ambitious, but if he is starting to be self-satisfied, I think it is because he is tragically under-coached lately.

Would you guys sell him if an offer arrived? Say we get 80m and we can spend it all on transfers. Would you do it?

I'm beginning to see him more and more in no man's land. He's good in both defence and offence, but not enough to make a difference.
There are more direct box-box midfielders and he's either too bad in defence or offense to play DM or attacking CM, respectively.

Still don't know what system or position suits him the best. He's good enough to be a cog in the machine, but I want him to be the focal point of a midfield for the price we paid.

Andresito said:

Would you guys sell him if an offer arrived? Say we get 80m and we can spend it all on transfers. Would you do it?

I'm beginning to see him more and more in no man's land. He's good in both defence and offence, but not enough to make a difference.
There are more direct box-box midfielders and he's either too bad in defence or offense to play DM or attacking CM, respectively.

Still don't know what system or position suits him the best. He's good enough to be a cog in the machine, but I want him to be the focal point of a midfield for the price we paid.

Click to expand...

80m would mean about 40m-50m profit due to amortisation. So we'd have that much to spend on someone. Can't see us spending that wisely. Think we should be looking at Kessie who's contract is running out as maybe someone to bring the best out of Frenkie, allow him the freedom to roam forward. Frenkie-Kessie-Pedri/Gavi looks not so bad.

Andresito said:

Would you guys sell him if an offer arrived? Say we get 80m and we can spend it all on transfers. Would you do it?

I'm beginning to see him more and more in no man's land. He's good in both defence and offence, but not enough to make a difference.
There are more direct box-box midfielders and he's either too bad in defence or offense to play DM or attacking CM, respectively.

Still don't know what system or position suits him the best. He's good enough to be a cog in the machine, but I want him to be the focal point of a midfield for the price we paid.

Click to expand...

yup. my impression also. but maybe we can get more for him.

our style of play and what we require from midfielders is not going to change, regardless of 'fans' in here that want us to be like liverpool or bayern.

There's virtually no chance replacing him for 80ME, especially considering Busquets as well. We won't get two ready to go midfielders. We would take massive gambles. Phase out Busquets and get our front line in order. That should be our two main concerns.

And honestly, I know people don't like to hear it and think it's just excuses, with our situation upfront it's downright impossible to shine (consistently) as a midfielder. Frenkie does enough.

Frenkie allows Busquets to use his strengths but Busquets doesn't allow Frenkie to use his. Put someone in who does and then let's decide if he's worth selling.

Rory said:

Frenkie allows Busquets to use his strengths but Busquets doesn't allow Frenkie to use his. Put someone in who does and then let's decide if he's worth selling.

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I don't necessarily think Busquets is the problem, it's primarily our shit front line. Frenkie needs to overcompensate by making far too many deep runs and hence being out of position rather often. But he gets the criticism, because he's not doing enough of his midfield duties.

Just look at Spain, they have no world beaters upfront, but their forwards still create space (depth). It's ridiculous in contrast to the likes of Messi, Griezmann... well, those were basically our wide players the last few years when Frenkie arrived.

Andresito said:

Would you guys sell him if an offer arrived? Say we get 80m and we can spend it all on transfers. Would you do it?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't. I first want to see him playing for a good coach in a working system without Busi alongside him, Pique behind him and also faster/more mobile forwards ahead.

Selling Frenkie would just mean we'd have to replace him (with what would most likely be an inferior player) when we really should be concentrating on removing players who have underperformed for years from the XI and improving the team around him.

I'd only consider selling for 140m+ but don't see any team paying that much.

Andresito said:

Would you guys sell him if an offer arrived? Say we get 80m and we can spend it all on transfers. Would you do it?

I'm beginning to see him more and more in no man's land. He's good in both defence and offence, but not enough to make a difference.
There are more direct box-box midfielders and he's either too bad in defence or offense to play DM or attacking CM, respectively.

Still don't know what system or position suits him the best. He's good enough to be a cog in the machine, but I want him to be the focal point of a midfield for the price we paid.

Click to expand...

He is gone in a summer of 2022 or 2023

He is good at all positions, doesn't excell at any of them.
Doesn't make too much difference in a good or bad way whether he is in a team or not.

When we remove emotions and a bias towards hyped and young players, it is really hard to claim that he is any improvement even over the old Rakitic, when you sum positional play, defending, attacking, goals, creativity.
For example, if you could magically replace the current Frenkie with a 30-years old Rakitic, would our results be any better?
No way.
Would we play any better?
I doubt.

He brings running and hype from fans due to his youth and Ajax days.
Not more than that.

I still think that a midfield is extremely chaotic since we bought him.
A lot of running, zero control-defending-and creativity.

BBZ8800 said:

He is gone in a summer of 2022 or 2023

He is good at all positions, doesn't excell at any of them.
Doesn't make too much difference in a good or bad way whether he is in a team or not.

When we remove emotions and a bias towards hyped and young players, it is really hard to claim that he is any improvement even over the old Rakitic, when you sum positional play, defending, attacking, goals, creativity.
For example, if you could magically replace the current Frenkie with a 30-years old Rakitic, would our results be any better?
No way.
Would we play any better?
I doubt.

He brings running and hype from fans due to his youth and Ajax days.
Not more than that.

I still think that a midfield is extremely chaotic since we bought him.
A lot of running, zero control-defending-and creativity.

Click to expand...

Why are you comparing FDJ to a 30 year old Rakitic? World cup rakitic is one of the best mids of all time and PSG or United would have bid over 60m for him but he ONLY was set on staying in Barcelona or at worst Seville because of his wife.

It's ridiculous to compare him to FDJ and incredibly unfair. Literally comparing a man who benched Xavi to a kid from Ajax and expect the same level

BBZ8800 said:

He is gone in a summer of 2022 or 2023

He is good at all positions, doesn't excell at any of them.
Doesn't make too much difference in a good or bad way whether he is in a team or not.

When we remove emotions and a bias towards hyped and young players, it is really hard to claim that he is any improvement even over the old Rakitic, when you sum positional play, defending, attacking, goals, creativity.
For example, if you could magically replace the current Frenkie with a 30-years old Rakitic, would our results be any better?
No way.
Would we play any better?
I doubt.

He brings running and hype from fans due to his youth and Ajax days.
Not more than that.

I still think that a midfield is extremely chaotic since we bought him.
A lot of running, zero control-defending-and creativity.

Click to expand...

Why wouldn't we improve? Prime Rakitic could actually shoot, his defending was better and he had insane chemistry with Messi

Messigician said:

Why are you comparing FDJ to a 30 year old Rakitic? World cup rakitic is one of the best mids of all time and PSG or United would have bid over 60m for him but he ONLY was set on staying in Barcelona or at worst Seville because of his wife.

It's ridiculous to compare him to FDJ and incredibly unfair. Literally comparing a man who benched Xavi to a kid from Ajax and expect the same level

Click to expand...

Are you taking medication ?

mc_lovin said:

I don't necessarily think Busquets is the problem, it's primarily our shit front line. Frenkie needs to overcompensate by making far too many deep runs and hence being out of position rather often. But he gets the criticism, because he's not doing enough of his midfield duties.

Just look at Spain, they have no world beaters upfront, but their forwards still create space (depth). It's ridiculous in contrast to the likes of Messi, Griezmann... well, those were basically our wide players the last few years when Frenkie arrived.

Click to expand...

Some excellent points !!

Zidane82 said:

Are you taking medication ?

Click to expand...

Current Frenkie is nothing compared to prime Rakitic.
Rakitic was world class in some areas.

Frenkie is a more hyped/better/Dutch version of Roberto.
Can play on any position, doesn't excel on any of them, no one can count 3 areas in which Frenkie is world class.

I can count 2:
1. Stamina
2. Press resistance

That is more or less it.

Even if he'll leave Barca, I think that he will struggle in any team due to not having skills for a specific position.
Not a winger.
Not a good defender.
Bad in the attacking third.
Bad controller.
He is just some weird stamina-box2box midfielder for chaotic teams.

He might fit at some random EPL team like Tottenham or Newcastle.

BBZ8800 said:

He is gone in a summer of 2022 or 2023

He is good at all positions, doesn't excell at any of them.
Doesn't make too much difference in a good or bad way whether he is in a team or not.

When we remove emotions and a bias towards hyped and young players, it is really hard to claim that he is any improvement even over the old Rakitic, when you sum positional play, defending, attacking, goals, creativity.
For example, if you could magically replace the current Frenkie with a 30-years old Rakitic, would our results be any better?
No way.
Would we play any better?
I doubt.

He brings running and hype from fans due to his youth and Ajax days.
Not more than that.

I still think that a midfield is extremely chaotic since we bought him.
A lot of running, zero control-defending-and creativity.

Click to expand...

You say this word emotion as if players are our family or something. Frenkie is a top player, that's all, no emotions involved, he's not the 2nd coming of Cruyff. He's not a magic player like a Ronaldinho to immediately stand out. But put in a proper team, under a proper manager, with proper tactics, he will be great. As he proved already ffs, he was named best midfielder in CL when we signed him.

A top player will not automatically stand out and be great in any conditions. Those that do are a tiny fraction and are usually generational players like Ronaldo, Zidane, Ronaldinho etc. Note that those who stand out individually are usually forwards. The last 3rd is a more individual space (as Pep used to say, my job is to get the ball to the forwards in good positions, from there, they have to make the difference). Midfield, where De Jong plays, is a highly tactical space where you need top-class organization to do something.

If you're expecting miracles in midfield under average managers you picked the wrong sport basically. It's where 80% of the tactical battle is carried during a football game.