21 - Frenkie de Jong

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Gnidrologist

Senior Member
Raketa10 said:
He has played as a midfielder in majority of games this season.
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Yet he always plays very deep, almost like a third CB most of the time. He's like a libero, Beckenbauer style in that he sometimes makes piercing runs through the whole field and sometimes participates in the final third, but most of the time his positioning is right in front of CBs. Is that also due to lack of cadre in Ajax?
 
George_Costanza

George_Costanza

Active member
te amo barca said:
you're confusing him with De Ligt.
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No, FDJ played CB many times and played CDM too. Didn't see him playing an advanced role.

Gnidrologist said:
Yet he always plays very deep, almost like a third CB most of the time. He's like a libero, Beckenbauer style in that he sometimes makes piercing runs through the whole field and sometimes participates in the final third, but most of the time his positioning is right in front of CBs. Is that also due to lack of cadre in Ajax?
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DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
FDJ has played as a CB, CDM and LCM. Played best as a CDM and LCM. Said himself he doesn't want to play as a CB as he's not good there.
 
G

Gnidrologist

Senior Member
Think we should simply forget then meme of "Busquet's role", "Xavi role" etc. The future midfield will be different in nature with entirely new roles. Trying to shoehorn every future player in a role from our classical team isn't constructive. I think Arthur and De Jong have some similar traits and some that would complement each other, but they are not as different as Xavi, Iniesta and Busi were with each having very distinct role. Maybe they can play as a double pivot with Coutinho as an AM/SS in front of them. De Jong would probably be in more advanced role as he has already proven to be good at driving the ball vertically forward and keen on giving line breaking passes. Funny, he seems to be even almost keen to do them, even when as simpler approach would be more productive. Backpass merchant and forward pass merchant would be nice balanced combo and they are both good defensively. I'm tired of this idea that we need a "baby sitter". Those two will be beasts at high pressing so we shouldn't have to hope for 'new Rakitic'. I hope we never need Rakitic type of player. Everyone should be fairly good at defensive duties and intense pressing needs to come back.
 
G

gasgas

Senior Member
Gnidrologist said:
Think we should simply forget then meme of "Busquet's role", "Xavi role" etc. The future midfield will be different in nature with entirely new roles. Trying to shoehorn every future player in a role from our classical team isn't constructive. I think Arthur and De Jong have some similar traits and some that would complement each other, but they are not as different as Xavi, Iniesta and Busi were with each having very distinct role. Maybe they can play as a double pivot with Coutinho as an AM/SS in front of them. De Jong would probably be in more advanced role as he has already proven to be good at driving the ball vertically forward and keen on giving line breaking passes. Funny, he seems to be even almost keen to do them, even when as simpler approach would be more productive. Backpass merchant and forward pass merchant would be nice balanced combo and they are both good defensively. I'm tired of this idea that we need a "baby sitter". Those two will be beasts at high pressing so we shouldn't have to hope for 'new Rakitic'. I hope we never need Rakitic type of player. Everyone should be fairly good at defensive duties and intense pressing needs to come back.
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that midfield is like a cry for help.

"Please destroy me"

IMO there should be a true DM there like O.busquets, Neves, Weigl with Arthur and De Jong as true CMs
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Gnidrologist said:
I'm tired of this idea that we need a "baby sitter". Those two will be beasts at high pressing so we shouldn't have to hope for 'new Rakitic'. I hope we never need Rakitic type of player. Everyone should be fairly good at defensive duties and intense pressing needs to come back.
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Babysitter Rakitic is not there due to a lack of midfield pressing.
He is there because of Messi, Suarez, Dembele and Coutinho.

You can have 3 De Jongs in a team, when Messi will still walk (not defending), Dembele doesn't know what is the point of defending, and Coutinho knows what is the point of defending but can't execute it to a baby-light physique.

So, you will need a babysitter again, until we buy hardworkers in attack, which won't happen to soon.
 
G

gasgas

Senior Member
Gnidrologist said:
Think we should simply forget then meme of "Busquet's role", "Xavi role" etc. The future midfield will be different in nature with entirely new roles. Trying to shoehorn every future player in a role from our classical team isn't constructive. I think Arthur and De Jong have some similar traits and some that would complement each other, but they are not as different as Xavi, Iniesta and Busi were with each having very distinct role. Maybe they can play as a double pivot with Coutinho as an AM/SS in front of them. De Jong would probably be in more advanced role as he has already proven to be good at driving the ball vertically forward and keen on giving line breaking passes. Funny, he seems to be even almost keen to do them, even when as simpler approach would be more productive. Backpass merchant and forward pass merchant would be nice balanced combo and they are both good defensively. I'm tired of this idea that we need a "baby sitter". Those two will be beasts at high pressing so we shouldn't have to hope for 'new Rakitic'. I hope we never need Rakitic type of player. Everyone should be fairly good at defensive duties and intense pressing needs to come back.
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you can't have 2 people defend for 4, whether they are excellent in pressing or not.

you just cant
 
G

Gnidrologist

Senior Member
De Jong is constantly babysitting not only for Ajax attack, but also for Blind, who is crap and constantly out of position. Arthur is also good defensively, albeit he needs to improve his positioning. Our wingers need to track back whether we have babysitter or not, so if Demebele doesn't work hard he indeed should be dropped. Coutinho imo is okay with his pressing and workrate. Messi was never defending to begin with. He only tracks back, when he's angry. Suarez should be get rid off.
So yeah, i can see problems right now and especially under clueless coach, but i refuse the idea that one of our CMs should be permanently tied to babysitting function. Rakitic also has more defensive duties, because as said, Busi isn't "real" DM and has to also be sweeped after a lot, when he fails his interception check. De Jong and Arthur are both much faster than him and great tacklers.
 
G

gasgas

Senior Member
Gnidrologist said:
De Jong is constantly babysitting not only for Ajax attack, but also for Blind, who is crap and constantly out of position. Arthur is also good defensively, albeit he needs to improve his positioning. Our wingers need to track back whether we have babysitter or not, so if Demebele doesn't work hard he indeed should be dropped. Coutinho imo is okay with his pressing and workrate. Messi was never defending to begin with. He only tracks back, when he's angry. Suarez should be get rid off.
So yeah, i can see problems right now and especially under clueless coach, but i refuse the idea that one of our CMs should be permanently tied to babysitting function. Rakitic also has more defensive duties, because as said, Busi isn't "real" DM and has to also be sweeped after a lot, when he fails his interception check. De Jong and Arthur are both much faster than him and great tacklers.
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Coutinhos defense as a midfielder is not enough.

As part of front three may be but in midfield he is quite poor defensively and adds to the list of players who need babysitting.

you can have Arthur and De Jong with a DM behind them. Quite balanced midfield like Kroos-Modric-casemiro
 
George_Costanza

George_Costanza

Active member
gasgas said:
Coutinhos defense as a midfielder is not enough.

As part of front three may be but in midfield he is quite poor defensively and adds to the list of players who need babysitting.

you can have Arthur and De Jong with a DM behind them. Quite balanced midfield like Kroos-Modric-casemiro
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I have no idea why you think Barcelona is United under Mourinho or ATM. Why the need for so many defensive minded midfielders, I thought the whole point of people dislike of EV and his football philosophy is because of what you described above as ideal set up. FDJ is a perfect CDM to replace Busquets who is declining fast. The role of Busquets is so complex with so many tasks to consider him as normal DM. I only see FDJ as the much-awaited replacement for Busquets because he is so hard to replace. If we are going to buy FDJ to play him in another CM or AM role (adding to so many CM/AM we already have) then that's such a waste.
 
G

gasgas

Senior Member
George_Costanza said:
I have no idea why you think Barcelona is United under Mourinho or ATM. Why the need for so many defensive minded midfielders, I thought the whole point of people dislike of EV and his football philosophy is because of what you described above as ideal set up. FDJ is a perfect CDM to replace Busquets who is declining fast. The role of Busquets is so complex with so many tasks to consider him as normal DM. I only see FDJ as the much-awaited replacement for Busquets because he is so hard to replace. If we are going to buy FDJ to play him in another CM or AM role (adding to so many CM/AM we already have) then that's such a waste.
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Put those midfielders on the field and i can guarantee you we will look nothing like a Mourinho team.

Arthur, De Jog, Busquets are all excellent on the ball.
We'll keep the ball more and the forwards will be supplied on a regular basis.

FDJ is best at CM where he can drive at defenses and release some passes. His strongest attributes are dribbling, forward passes and pace.

Defence is a bonus.

He is not a Busquets replacement, as others pointed, he looks more like Modric. You wouldnt waste Modric at CDM would you?
 
G

gasgas

Senior Member
D10S_JC said:
[tw]1051192989907861504[/tw]
His acceleration is impressive and unexpected. I literally think he is a Barca-type slow player before.:lol:
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[MENTION=20461]George_Costanza[/MENTION]

So this is a Busquet replacement to you?

You wanna waste this player at CDM.
look at how he passes and drives at defences
 
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