21 - Frenkie de Jong

BBZ8800

Senior Member
For writing off:

Deulofeu
Denis
Munir
Samper
Gomes
and
Boateng

you don't have to be an expert do you??? And Boateng was brought while he was in charge. So I don't know what are you trying to prove? Name ONE player who improved under Valverde?

Remember that Samper was rated and overhyped here a few years ago higher than Alena and Puig together.
Denis was the new Iniesta, a new number 6.
Some usual suspects from this forum who love only Barca DNA players were writing songs about Denis in his first season here, while he was always the worst player in our rooster from the day 1 with irreparable flaws for a top level football. But he had some shiny moves and nice technique so a lot of people were fooled by 2-3 areas in which he was good at.

So, it is not as simple as you say.

My point is, people are making a logical reasoning mistake when they are questioning every single EV's decision due to Roma's and Liverpool's matches.
As in: he made horrible choices against Roma and Liverpool, so probably EVERY SINGLE DECISION which he made over 2 years here is probably=wrong.
And people are wrong there.

EV made bad choices in away matches against Liverpool and Roma.
That still doesn't have anything to do with Malcom who is an average player regardless of what EV did in a match against Liverpool.
Malcom is equally good or bad, regardless if we won 4:0 or lost 0:4 to Liverpool, if you get my point?

In that sense, I am saying that Arthur has dropped a lot in a pecking order of EV and his coaching staff once when coaches were more familiar with his abilities and flaws.

Imo, there is a very high chance that people will find out over time (the same as with Malcom, for example): why has Arthur lost a place in EV's pecking order.
There is, though, a chance that EV was horribly wrong about everything...

But how things stand in this moment, to save you guys from frustrations, I have offered you the most predictable lineup in the next season:
1. if EV and Rakitic will stay:
Busi, Raki - Vidal (or Frenkie)
2. if EV stays and Raki will be sold:
Busi - xx -xx (two spots between Vidal, Frenkie, Arthur and Alena, with Vidal and Frenkie probably occupying spots no2 and no3 in EV's pecking order)
3. if EV will be gone:
= everything is possible and we need to see a pecking order of a new coach

If you guys won't accept this, I can already see first matches in August with Busi-Raki-Vidal/Frenkie, and 100s of posts: why, why, why Arthur is not playing?
I mean, if you open your eyes, check EV's pecking order (and check stats where Arthur is the weakest link in every possible statistical area, except in a mighty: press resistance area), you will lose less nerves in repeating the same question for the next 12 Months.

In this moment, EV doesn't rate Arthur.
Whether he is wrong or not, we will see over time.

But again, majority of posters are talking about Busi-Frenkie-Arthur lineup.
Lol, it is extremely unlikely that it will happen as long as EV is alive and Raki and Vidal are here since they will be higher in a pecking order than Arthur.

you don't have to be an expert do you??? And Boateng was brought while he was in charge. So I don't know what are you trying to prove? Name ONE player who improved under Valverde?

1. players can't improve if they are old, tired, physically and mentally drained, without motivation due to winning everything in their careers (Messi, Suarez, Busi, Raki, Pique)
2. players can't improve if they are meh and overrated (Dembele, Malcom, Semedo, Arthur)

Who has improved under EV?
Lenglet, Mats, Alba. Even Dembele was better in this season.
 
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Raketa10

Senior Member

Lenglet is playing at the same level he did while he was in Sevilla. The only difference is that we have a stronger team. So I can't see in what way did Valverde improve him?

1. players can't improve if they are old, tired, physically and mentally drained, without motivation due to winning everything in their careers (Messi, Suarez, Busi, Raki, Pique)
2. players can't improve if they are meh and overrated (Dembele, Malcom, Semedo, Arthur)

Who has improved under EV?
Lenglet, Mats, Alba. Even Dembele was better in this season.

Valverde improved Mats? A goalkeeper? Really??? :facepalm: Alba was a well established player before Valverde. Dembele is still playing bellow required level and he is nowhere near his potential. Oh and yes Arthur is overrated only according to you. Give Dembouz to Klopp and you will see what happens. I can't wait for you to write that De Jong is overrated because he for sure won't play great under Valverde. We might as well get Mbappe he would end up being described overrated by many in this forum as long as we are managed by this clown.

In the end you know what is the difference between a world class managers and average or mediocre ones? Under WC managers even average players like Milner or Henderson look great while under mediocre managers even WC players can't make a difference. Just compare Coutinho under Klopp and Valverde.

I can't comprehend the fact that you honestly don't see Valverde being responsible for majority of our problems. While I can agree that Semedo is nowhere near the level of Dani Alves or that Rakitic is far away from the level of Iniesta or Xavi I can't understand that you trash our players all of the time while it's clear we don't have a clear system at all. No one in this world can claim that Valencia has better team than we do and they trashed us during first half in Copa final. Also no one can't claim that Barca with this squad should rely only on Messi or that it's perfectly normal to lose 3 goals advantage TWO times in a row. So yes our squad is not on the level it was 7-8 years ago but FFS we still have a great team yet we are playing horrible football and we are simply relying on ONE player.
 
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Judoman

Senior Member
but FFS we still have a great team but we are playing horrible football and we are simply relying on ONE player.

This part is crucial and it shows the "quality" that is Valverde. Personnel vise we are not far from a fantastic squad, missing only two or three players (Griezmann, MF-a, FW).

But in order to do this there would have to be big tactical changes and some players have to be sold and/or benched. It doesn t look like Valverde is the guy to make a transition from Messi oriented team to
a modern, fast, though team with Messi as an icing on a cake.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Over 2 years, he was right in writing off:
Deulofeu
Denis
Munir
Samper
Gomes
Malcom
Boateng didn't play too much

He wasn't right with Malcom. Which is why he usually played well when used with the full normal team. As for the rest, 90% if those are players very clear cases.

You really think people here blame Valverde because he didn't play Denis, Deulofeu, Munir, Boateng and Samper? :lol:

When a new coach will come, we'll see how will he rate Arthur.
Under EV, you won't see too much of a Frenkie-Arthur duo as long as Busi, Raki and Vidal are here.
Even Alena got more playing time than Arthur in matches when Gala11 played in May.
A coincidence?
We'll see.

A new coach doesn't automatically change things, just because he has a different name than Valverde. Only a new top manager would, and one who knows how to play possession football effectively.

The bolded part is why a new humiliation will happen - it's only a matter of time, and why Valverde is a terrible manager for us. No sane manager would play that midfield again in a top game, after Liverpool trashed it to pieces.
 
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Put him in the Players section already - bar Messi he is probably the only bright thing about the club right now, seeing him in the players section can only lift the spirits of the already pessimistic, downtrodden BF members
 

Zidane82

Well-known member
Kinda worrying that England’s young midfielder Rice has admitted that he’ll have to play ‘dirty’ against FDJ tomorrow just to contain him !!
 

clemente

New member
He looks depressed, that fucking POISON made eye contact with him, probably even had a chat, I knew this will happen
 

Zidane82

Well-known member
Fingers crossed guys !!

FDJ is going up against Rice who’s already suggested ( yesterday ) that he’s prepared to play dirty to contain FDJ plus Delph who can be a filthy player ... he’s made some horrendous tackles over the years ... his last one was the one that sidelined Harry Kane for the last month or so of the season ..
 

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