Kylian Mbappé

Leo_Messi

Leo_Messi

New member
While Mbappé is an immense player he is not a generational talent nor does he deserve to be mentioned alongside Messi, Ronaldo and others. Ronaldo was twice the player (if that can do it) Mbappé's age.

Griezmann was France most important offensive player during the World Cup as he was during the European Championship in 2016. Mbappé is explosive but vastly overrated IMO. Within 2-3 seasons a better talent will emerge without a doubt. Dembélé is the superior talent. If Dembélé begins to score on a consistent basis (as this season) there will not even be a competition. There is much more to Dembélé's game and he is as quick as Mbappé which is the latters strongest weapon. Mbappé is very limited as he struggles to create on his own and pace is alfa and omega for him. Not sure how well he would do for us when his technique and ability to create on his own is limited. He would suit RM better since they are more of a counter attacking team and always been that historically.

In other words I don't see him getting much better than he is currently while I cannot say the same thing about Dembélé. Technique, vision, being able to create on your own etc. is not exactly something that you can learn overnight. Being less wasteful in front of goal, as Dembélé has proven this season, is a much easier accomplishment.

Let the resident low IQ QSG trolls cry now after reading this post.
 
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Jair Ventura

Jair Ventura

New member
Leo_Messi said:
While Mbappé is an immense player he is not a generational talent nor does he deserve to be mentioned alongside Messi, Ronaldo and others. Ronaldo was twice the player (if that can do it) Mbappé's age.

Griezmann was France most important offensive player during the World Cup as he was during the European Championship in 2016. Mbappé is explosive but vastly overrated IMO. Within 2-3 seasons a better talent will emerge without a doubt. Dembélé is the superior talent. If Dembélé begins to score on a consistent basis (as this season) there will not even be a competition. There is much more to Dembélé's game and he is as quick as Mbappé which is the latters strongest weapon. Mbappé is very limited as he struggles to create on his own and pace is alfa and omega for him. Not sure how well he would do for us when his technique and ability to create on his own is limited. He would suit RM better since they are more of a counter attacking team and always been that historically.

In other words I don't see him getting much better than he is currently while I cannot say the same thing about Dembélé. Technique, vision, being able to create on your own etc. is not exactly something that you can learn overnight. Being less wasteful in front of goal, as Dembélé has proven this season, is a much easier accomplishment.

Let the resident low IQ QSG trolls cry now after reading this post.
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Stopped reading. :lol:
 
messi2140

messi2140

6racies Xavi
I personally can't see Messi in his prime bag a few goals against the likes of Dijon Mustard while Mbappe can. :coffee:
 
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Bulgroz

Bulgroz

Senior Member
Leo_Messi said:
While Mbappé is an immense player he is not a generational talent nor does he deserve to be mentioned alongside Messi, Ronaldo and others. Ronaldo was twice the player (if that can do it) Mbappé's age.

Griezmann was France most important offensive player during the World Cup as he was during the European Championship in 2016. Mbappé is explosive but vastly overrated IMO. Within 2-3 seasons a better talent will emerge without a doubt. Dembélé is the superior talent. If Dembélé begins to score on a consistent basis (as this season) there will not even be a competition. There is much more to Dembélé's game and he is as quick as Mbappé which is the latters strongest weapon. Mbappé is very limited as he struggles to create on his own and pace is alfa and omega for him. Not sure how well he would do for us when his technique and ability to create on his own is limited. He would suit RM better since they are more of a counter attacking team and always been that historically.

In other words I don't see him getting much better than he is currently while I cannot say the same thing about Dembélé. Technique, vision, being able to create on your own etc. is not exactly something that you can learn overnight. Being less wasteful in front of goal, as Dembélé has proven this season, is a much easier accomplishment.

Let the resident low IQ QSG trolls cry now after reading this post.
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I mean, I get that we're on a Barca fan forum, but that doesn't mean people have to be blind either.

First of all, you might want to check Ronaldo's stats and accomplishments from when he was 17 to 19. And then compare them to Mbappe's. Saying that he was "twice the player" Mbappe is at the same age is just pure nonsense. Nobody saw Cristiano becoming such a giant when he was 18. People were thinking he would become a great player, sure, but not a 5 times Ballon d'Or winner, and one of the best goal scorer in the world. At 21, his Ballon d'Or record was 12th, 20th and 14th. Mbappe reached top 5 at 20. He scored way more goals than Cristiano at the same age, including in a UCL semi final (carrying his team to that said semi final) and in a WC final. There's absolutely no competition as to who was the better 19 year old between CR and Mbappe. That doesn't mean Mbappe will reach CR's height, obviously, but pretending the contrary is being delusionnal.

Second of all, yeah, if Dembele starts scoring as much as Mbappe, he will prove that he's at least as good as him. But it's not happening yet, is it ? Because last time I checked, Mbappe had score almost twice as much as Dembele this season (including 3 goals AND 3 assists in UCL, before you start whining about Mbappe playing in a farmer's league). And that whole idea about Mbappe being useless against parked bus is based on what exactly ? Go check again his back heel pass against Belgium, or his many goals/assists in Ligue 1 against parked bus (because you best believe that Angers or Bordeaux are not playing a very fiercy football when they're up against Monaco or PSG). Yes, he's better when he has some space. But so is Dembele. That doesn't mean that he's useless against a parked bus. He can dribble (not as well as Dembouz, but still better than any of the top CF in the world imho), and he's very good at punishing any type of opening the defenders will give him (see his first goal against Argentina, in a box filled with defenders who were all clueless).
Yes, he had an impressive WC also because he had good players with him. And I do agree that Griezmann was the best french player (though many people here seem to think he was shit, but what can you do). That doesn't take away the fact that Mbappe was very good, especially against Argentina, winning the game by himself. Meanwhile, Dembele (older than Mbappe) sat on the bench and was pretty bad everytime he played.

I mean, thinking that Dembouz might go higher is one thing. I don't agree, but you never know what might happen (and I'm pretty sure Dembouz can go very high, as I've said many times on this forum: I'm a huuuuuuuge fan of him from his very beginning at Rennes). Thinking that Mbappe is just some average striker compared to Dembele is mostly nonsense, especially on those arguments. Because yes, Mbappe can improve. As Newcomer (I think ?) said, a lot of PSG fans think he's still wasting too much in front of the goal, for example. You said it yourself, that's something you can get better at. So what if Mbappe starts scoring 50 goals each season, including in UCL (he scored more for his 1st UCL participation than Dembele in his whole career so far by the way) ? He can also become better in his decision making (which is something that does improve too, especially for young starters). Dembele has still some work to do before reaching Mbappe's current level. And when he does reach that level, who knows where Mbappe will be ?


PS: I'm not a QSG fan at all, in case you're thinking I'm just a fanboy. I really don't like them. And I love Dembele. But as a french fan, to me there's no competition right now between the two.
 
Leo_Messi

Leo_Messi

New member
Bulgroz said:
I mean, I get that we're on a Barca fan forum, but that doesn't mean people have to be blind either.

First of all, you might want to check Ronaldo's stats and accomplishments from when he was 17 to 19. And then compare them to Mbappe's. Saying that he was "twice the player" Mbappe is at the same age is just pure nonsense. Nobody saw Cristiano becoming such a giant when he was 18. People were thinking he would become a great player, sure, but not a 5 times Ballon d'Or winner, and one of the best goal scorer in the world. At 21, his Ballon d'Or record was 12th, 20th and 14th. Mbappe reached top 5 at 20. He scored way more goals than Cristiano at the same age, including in a UCL semi final (carrying his team to that said semi final) and in a WC final. There's absolutely no competition as to who was the better 19 year old between CR and Mbappe. That doesn't mean Mbappe will reach CR's height, obviously, but pretending the contrary is being delusionnal.

Second of all, yeah, if Dembele starts scoring as much as Mbappe, he will prove that he's at least as good as him. But it's not happening yet, is it ? Because last time I checked, Mbappe had score almost twice as much as Dembele this season (including 3 goals AND 3 assists in UCL, before you start whining about Mbappe playing in a farmer's league). And that whole idea about Mbappe being useless against parked bus is based on what exactly ? Go check again his back heel pass against Belgium, or his many goals/assists in Ligue 1 against parked bus (because you best believe that Angers or Bordeaux are not playing a very fiercy football when they're up against Monaco or PSG). Yes, he's better when he has some space. But so is Dembele. That doesn't mean that he's useless against a parked bus. He can dribble (not as well as Dembouz, but still better than any of the top CF in the world imho), and he's very good at punishing any type of opening the defenders will give him (see his first goal against Argentina, in a box filled with defenders who were all clueless).
Yes, he had an impressive WC also because he had good players with him. And I do agree that Griezmann was the best french player (though many people here seem to think he was shit, but what can you do). That doesn't take away the fact that Mbappe was very good, especially against Argentina, winning the game by himself. Meanwhile, Dembele (older than Mbappe) sat on the bench and was pretty bad everytime he played.

I mean, thinking that Dembouz might go higher is one thing. I don't agree, but you never know what might happen (and I'm pretty sure Dembouz can go very high, as I've said many times on this forum: I'm a huuuuuuuge fan of him from his very beginning at Rennes). Thinking that Mbappe is just some average striker compared to Dembele is mostly nonsense, especially on those arguments. Because yes, Mbappe can improve. As Newcomer (I think ?) said, a lot of PSG fans think he's still wasting too much in front of the goal, for example. You said it yourself, that's something you can get better at. So what if Mbappe starts scoring 50 goals each season, including in UCL (he scored more for his 1st UCL participation than Dembele in his whole career so far by the way) ? He can also become better in his decision making (which is something that does improve too, especially for young starters). Dembele has still some work to do before reaching Mbappe's current level. And when he does reach that level, who knows where Mbappe will be ?


PS: I'm not a QSG fan at all, in case you're thinking I'm just a fanboy. I really don't like them. And I love Dembele. But as a french fan, to me there's no competition right now between the two.
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Before writing such a long post, it would be a good thing to realize that I am talking about the Brazilian Ronaldo (should be obvious) otherwise my post would make no sense. Besides I would have written Cristiano Ronaldo and not Ronaldo.

Dembélé does not need to score as much as Mbappé because Dembélé plays as a winger, not as a striker. Mbappé has little to his game other than scoring goals. His vision is inferior (vastly) and so is his technique. He struggles to create much on his own. When playing against teams who park the bus, he struggles as well. He is an early bloomer but personally I don't see him reaching much higher heights than his current level. I don't see anything wrong with this claim. I rate Dembélé as the greater and more complete talent and I believe that Dembélé has the higher celling and that time will show this.

BTW, Dembélé's goals and assists per game ratio is very good considering the fact that he plays in the strongest league in the world while Ligue 1 is what it is. No need to elaborate more. Not even going to mention that he plays for QSG where every offensive player looks good. Even Di María is setting the world alight at PSG. Although I don't like Neymar, he is the architect and brain behind QSG's offensive game. Mbappé has enjoyed his company greatly. As for his Monaco stint, every player looked great from that team. It was a fairytale season. Won't conclude a lot based on that season alone. I mean, Bakayoko looked like a beast and suffice to say that he flopped at Chelsea and looks average in an average Milan side.

I rate Mbappé and only an idiot would not consider him as a special talent but I don't think that he is a generational talent that is even comparable to Messi or Ronaldo, that he will be MUCH better than he currently is or that he would be a good fit here. That is all.

With all due respect to Mbappé, I am yet to see him score a goal like Dembélé scored against Tottenham. Such goals cannot be taught. Only special players score such goals.
He is hyped a lot as well.
 
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Jair Ventura

Jair Ventura

New member
Cule4life said:
You sound like those stupid pundits who say Messi can never be GOAT cos he didn't win the WC.

By that standard Romario is a better player than Messi cos he won the world cup.
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I’m someone that recognizes how rare it is for a teenager to be a key contributor to a World Cup winning team. If it were easy everyone could do it.
 
Jair Ventura

Jair Ventura

New member
Judoman said:
Jez you are anoying, arrogant litlle prick man.


There are plenty of people who think Mbappe doesn t YET belong in the same sentence as R9. Or CR.
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What does that have to do with Kylian’s achievement being historic? Absolutely nothing. Stop trying to downplay what it means to be a world champion.
 
Bulgroz

Bulgroz

Senior Member
Leo_Messi said:
Before writing such a long post, it would be a good thing to realize that I am talking about the Brazilian Ronaldo (should be obvious) otherwise my post would make no sense. Besides I would have written Cristiano Ronaldo and not Ronaldo.

Dembélé does not need to score as much as Mbappé because Dembélé plays as a winger, not as a striker. Mbappé has little to his game other than scoring goals. His vision is inferior (vastly) and so is his technique. He struggles to create much on his own. When playing against teams who park the bus, he struggles as well. He is an early bloomer but personally I don't see him reaching much higher heights than his current level. I don't see anything wrong with this claim. I rate Dembélé as the greater and more complete talent and I believe that Dembélé has the higher celling and that time will show this.

BTW, Dembélé's goals and assists per game ratio is very good considering the fact that he plays in the strongest league in the world while Ligue 1 is what it is. No need to elaborate more. Not even going to mention that he plays for QSG where every offensive player looks good. Even Di María is setting the world alight at PSG. Although I don't like Neymar, he is the architect and brain behind QSG's offensive game. Mbappé has enjoyed his company greatly. As for his Monaco stint, every player looked great from that team. It was a fairytale season. Won't conclude a lot based on that season alone. I mean, Bakayoko looked like a beast and suffice to say that he flopped at Chelsea and looks average in an average Milan side.

I rate Mbappé and only an idiot would not consider him as a special talent but I don't think that he is a generational talent that is even comparable to Messi or Ronaldo, that he will be MUCH better than he currently is or that he would be a good fit here. That is all.

He is hyped a lot as well.
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My bad about CR/Ronaldo then.

As for their position on the pitch, Mbappe plays/played quite often as a winger too (France's striker is Giroud, PSG's striker is Cavani even though Mbappe playes upfront more and more). He just doesn't have the same playstyle, and tends to run to the box more than he's running next to the line, but still. That's also one of the reasons why he's getting quite a fair amount of assists too (not a lot less than Dembele). As for the leagues comparison, I expected it. But once again, check their UCL stats. Oh, and no, Di Maria is not "setting the world alight" at PSG, most fans rate him very poorly.
 
soul24rage

soul24rage

Senior Member
Jair Ventura said:
Kylian is already an historical giant. Catch up with the times.
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What you said would really depend on what you mean by historical giant. If you mean making a mark in history, then yes I would agree with you (although I think the term "historical giant" refers more to GOATs, rather than someone who made a mark in history). Playing very good in the WC and scoring in the WC final as a teenager since Pele is an incredible achievement and he will be in the WC history forever. There's no denying that.

If you meant historical giant as one of the GOATs, then no, I would not agree with you yet. He still has a long way to go, but he made a very very good start to be potential be talked in that conversation.
 
Leo_Messi

Leo_Messi

New member
Bulgroz said:
My bad about CR/Ronaldo then.

As for their position on the pitch, Mbappe plays/played quite often as a winger too (France's striker is Giroud, PSG's striker is Cavani even though Mbappe playes upfront more and more). He just doesn't have the same playstyle, and tends to run to the box more than he's running next to the line, but still. That's also one of the reasons why he's getting quite a fair amount of assists too (not a lot less than Dembele). As for the leagues comparison, I expected it. But once again, check their UCL stats. Oh, and no, Di Maria is not "setting the world alight" at PSG, most fans rate him very poorly.
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Mbappé is a finisher while Dembélé is a creator on the pitch who assists more, has much superior vision and who can dribble 3-4 defenders and players in one action opening the field completely and creating nummerical superiority. There is little difference in terms of quickness between them. Now Dembélé is adding goals to his game. Goals of crucial importance that win points and games, not "meaningless goals" scored in thrashings.

Not only that Dembélé plays with the GOAT in Messi and most prolific goalscorer in football history. Not only that, one of the best attackers of his generation if not the best in Luis Suárez who is the best goalscorer in the past 10 years only behind Messi and C. Ronaldo. Mbappé is playing in Ligue 1 (yes, it might be annoying to hear but it is a fact that it is a vastly inferior league than La Liga) with Cavani and Neymar. No comparison here.

Di María IS setting the world alight at QSG statistically compared to his stint at Man Utd where he failed spectacularly. Di María has scored 57 goals in 158 appearances for QSG. That is more than he scored for Benfica, RM and Man Utd combined. That should tell you everything.

Anyway I won't take anything away from Mbappé but my points remain and I don't take people seriously who compare him with Messi and Ronaldo when it is painfully clear that he is not fit to clean their boots. As of now.

A WC win for a stacked France team (where he was not the best player either) where France only met Belgium (of top teams but they are a historical nobody though) when they won their WC, is not something that I will say "oh, that puts him in the category of Messi and Ronaldo". Croatia was the better team in the final for long stretches of the match and here we are talking about a team that is worse in every position on paper. Not only that, they played an extra 30 minutes in EVERY single knockout game starting against Denmark and ending with England. Sorry. Winning against THAT Argentina team was a must win and they barely did it. Uruguay too. The group stage was a walkover with the likes of Australia, Peru and Denmark.

What a 26 year old and crippled Ronaldo did in 2002 was many times more impressive. No comparisons here regardless of the hype. People are tired of Messi and Ronaldo so they want another poster boy in Mbappé but facts remain facts and hype remains hype.
 
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