Zinedine Zidane

Nazario1985 said:

Zidane was legendary in every club / generation he played in, that 2006 WC run was better than his 1998 run, made the whole brazil team with R9 & Dinho looks like children.

Peak Iniesta legendary also, people should stop brining Xavi into discussion when talking Iniesta & Zidane !!

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Yet it is always that 2006 run, especially the game v. Brazil linked above, the 98 final with the two headers, the 2001 final with the nice volley, and maybe EURO 2000 too, that gets brought up.

He won three leagues in his entire career, yet he was clearly the best midfielder in the world, able to play for insanely stacked Real Madrid and Juventus who both won the league more often both after he left, and before he arrived. For most of his career he was questioned by his own fans and the entire world, it was like that in Juventus and it was like that for most of his time, in most of the games in Real Madrid. Their fans expected more from him.

That game v. Brazil was very nice of course. It is legendary mostly because Brazil with Ronaldinho were so hyped, and France were large underdogs in the game (despite having a very stacked team) so the win was unexpected, and 34 y.o finished Zidane playing well was also unexpected. He made the assist and some very stylish and nice things in the middle of the pitch, but it wasn't as dominating as you'd think. I am sure the youngsters who only watched the 4 minute clip above and not the game when it happened will agree. Messi did more than that in the majority of his games...

To summarize Zidane, he was an extremely talented and stylish player who happened to decide a couple of finals and play a few more great games at the right moments. To compare him with Xavi who won more than twice the titles and who was crucial in making his team dominate every single game, is pretty insane. Only in video compilations could Zidane compare.

"Happen to decide a couple of finals in CL & WC"

That alone places you over 99.99% of the players.

Since his debut in France he was above the rest.

In RM he was the boss despite legends like R9, played under many different systems in 3 countries.

Now compare him to Xavi who only thrived with the best squads in the world FCB/Spain ... you get the point.

Go watch Xavi before the rise of FCB, the guy was on the send out list ...

Xavi is a legend of course, but he was NEVER the guy who could take responsibility of a team and turn things around ...

Xavi was 23/24 before Iniesta started for the first team and Ronaldinho was bought from PSG ... he was at best described a "good" player before he rose to a legendary level with the new system/players.

Iniesta 19 years old and day one everyone knew this guy is special, and continued to prove he was the talent to look for for a decade in FCB

That's the difference between someone who makes the team thrives with him (Iniesta/Zidane/Gaucho..), and someone who only thrives under a good functional team (Xavi/Pirlo/..)

Saying Xavi won more than Zidane at the club level is not even a measure ... Our bench back then won more than what Maradona had in his whole career !!! doesn't mean shit.

in 2006 when Xavi met Zidane in the WC even an old tired Zidane shew the midfield of Spain .... there was one name repeated the whole time and it wasn't Xavi who was subbed btw !!

Legendary performances from Zidane carrying the NT or the club are countless.

Of course you will find more spectacular team performance (not individual) things with Xavi but... playing with Messi & Iniesta.

For every Xavi performance when he changed the game @FCB or Spain BYHIMSELF not some one two with Messi & Iniesta (if you can find any) i can give you 10 from Zidane.

Still remembering first time i saw him with France NT he was like 19/20 ... went for the last 20mins France was down 0-1 scored two goals and gave 2 sitters and made Eric Cantona look like a kid

Xavi and Iniesta were better on the daily.

Zidane had a higher peak level/one-off performance in him (though here, Iniesta could also be argued).

Presence/aura wise, Zidane easily the highest among the three.

Nazario1985 said:

Long post just above

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Pirlo is of course not even close, and he is much more of a Zidane type player than a Xavi one. Not in position but in delivery.

Zidane was more shiny on his own than Xavi, my argument is that Xavi made GOAT Barcelona possible, him getting more trust was the biggest key for all the titles (it's silly of you to mention bench players). Switch Xavi with Zidane in that team and it would make the team a lot worse. Same with Spain, where Xavi didn't have Messi...

Zidane always had that same trust in Real Madrid, but he only managed one league and one CL in his years there (Valencia and Barcelona won twice each), and he was criticized a lot by his own fans and everyone else most of the time, I am sure you remember. Then he decided a game here and there I know.

Can't believe that this guy won 3 CL's in a row lol.

Fati_Future_BallonDor said:

Can't believe that this guy won 3 CL's in a row lol.

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Yeah must have happened by luck ... 3 times

you know when Pep can't win without the best squad in history

Of course the CLs were a lot of luck, they weren't favourites any of the years as I am aware. Had they won in an impressive way like Barcelona in 2009, they'd of course be favourites the next year.
This is what happens in knockout tournaments, you get results like that, just like you sometimes throw a dice and get 10 sixes in a row.
Guardiola has won just enough with his 2 wins in 14 years as a manager, with six semi finals and one final on top of that. It is a good record managing the best teams of the world. His ten league wins says a lot more though.

Bobo32 said:

Of course the CLs were a lot of luck, they weren't favourites any of the years as I am aware. Had they won in an impressive way like Barcelona in 2009, they'd of course be favourites the next year.
This is what happens in knockout tournaments, you get results like that, just like you sometimes throw a dice and get 10 sixes in a row.
Guardiola has won just enough with his 2 wins in 14 years as a manager, with six semi finals and one final on top of that. It is a good record managing the best teams of the world. His ten league wins says a lot more though.

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RM? Sure we were among the favorites, perhaps not for 15/16, but certainly for 16/17 and 17/18.

Ironic you'd bring up 08/09 Barca, that one had more luck involved than 2011, which was easily more dominant.

As for being "impressive", 13/14 and 16/17 was impressive enough for me.

But of course i do agree though, that CL has a good deal of luck and momentum involved.

Morten said:

RM? Sure we were among the favorites, perhaps not for 15/16, but certainly for 16/17 and 17/18.

Ironic you'd bring up 08/09 Barca, that one had more luck involved than 2011, which was easily more dominant.

As for being "impressive", 13/14 and 16/17 was impressive enough for me.

But of course i do agree though, that CL has a good deal of luck and momentum involved.

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Among them, but never the clear ones, meaning these three wins all must've had a lot of variance to them.
What I said about -09 is that after that win, Barcelona were massive favourites, because they were clearly the best team in the world, as they then showed so well in 2011. Almost any tournament win has a lot of luck involved, either directly through close games, or indirectly by other teams beating the best teams for you, lucky draws etc.

But if you as a manager develop your team in a way that makes the rest of the world change their style in order to stand a chance against you, if everyone knows that you are the best team, then that is much more impressive to me than a manager who is almost sacked every year, but still somehow manages to win the CL in the end three years in a row.
What Zidane did was very impressive in its own way, but to compare to Pep in the way the other poster and many with him do, is cheap. Pep wins 90% of the leagues and has a very good CL record too.

Bobo32 said:

Among them, but never the clear ones, meaning these three wins all must've had a lot of variance to them.
What I said about -09 is that after that win, Barcelona were massive favourites, because they were clearly the best team in the world, as they then showed so well in 2011. Almost any tournament win has a lot of luck involved, either directly through close games, or indirectly by other teams beating the best teams for you, lucky draws etc.

But if you as a manager develop your team in a way that makes the rest of the world change their style in order to stand a chance against you, if everyone knows that you are the best team, then that is much more impressive to me than a manager who is almost sacked every year, but still somehow manages to win the CL in the end three years in a row.
What Zidane did was very impressive in its own way, but to compare to Pep in the way the other poster and many with him do, is cheap. Pep wins 90% of the leagues and has a very good CL record too.

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Nah, pretty clear favorites for 17/18 i'd say, even though that was ironically the worst of our CL-wins in the end, Bayern should have ended our run tbh.

And you are wrong about "almost sacked every season" btw, in regards to Zidane, and you know that.

Morten said:

Nah, pretty clear favorites for 17/18 i'd say, even though that was ironically the worst of our CL-wins in the end, Bayern should have ended our run tbh.

And you are wrong about "almost sacked every season" btw, in regards to Zidane, and you know that.

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If there was not talk every autumn about his sacking, then it was all but one of them. How close it was I do not know, only that on forums like these, he wasn't that highly regarded for most of the time.
Maybe you are correct about 17/18. It would be strange if they were not after two in a row. It would be nice to see the odds... I only know I was a bit surprised every year in the end

Bobo32 said:

If there was not talk every autumn about his sacking, then it was all but one of them. How close it was I do not know, only that on forums like these, he wasn't that highly regarded for most of the time.
Maybe you are correct about 17/18. It would be strange if they were not after two in a row. It would be nice to see the odds... I only know I was a bit surprised every year in the end

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No there wasn't, and internet-gossip doesn't count.

In the 3-peat, only in 17/18 was there any serious talk about it.

Real was definitely favourite to win cl in 17/18 as people had realized it doesnt matter how bad they are playing against granada, cadiz or alaves, if there is a big cl knockout match they are ready to win this war. Real won against PSG, Juve and Bayern away lol, mentality monsters during Zidane time.

Barca was more dominant than 3 peat Madrid in the league. Overrated team. Lucked out they avoided barca all three years.

Odds on him being hired by PSG after CL final?