Real Madrid

El Gato said:

Now Carlo to being asked 'how do you feel being described as a Cholista' he is understandably all nice saying he's proud to be associated with someone with such 'fighting spirit'

lol
Even the mainstream is now starting to see how he tries to win. Not gonna get there in same way, but he's happy perfecting the reactive RM

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The grass is always greener mate.

You have a manager who improved basically your whole squad and Vinicius/Benzema/Valverde went from meh to world class under him, you win LL and CL and are unbeaten so far this season and you complain about him -

Because he only won by 2 goals against Barca.

Come on lol

ajnotkeith said:

The grass is always greener mate.

You have a manager who improved basically your whole squad and Vinicius/Benzema/Valverde went from meh to world class under him, you win LL and CL and are unbeaten so far this season and you complain about him -

Because he only won by 2 goals against Barca.

Come on lol

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We'll see
I'm simply not a fan of the methods, said so from start way before we won anything. This day and age where Atletico pose little to no threat, Seville are dumpsterfire this season and Barca are finding their feet, domestic competition should be a wrap without questions asked and is a rather low bar that we somehow struggle to clear

Nor am I alone in the impressions got from this last Clasico. Many Madrid fans are frustrated with how he openly says he doesn't care about win margin and banks on 1 or 2:0 being enough each time, constantly giving opponent way back into the game. Just tell your players to kill it off. Play less reserved. Game should have been done and dusted way earlier

Domestic competition should be a wrap for Madrid? So much hubris.

Since when has Madrid played great football to please the fans? Not that I can recall. They always did the right things and just enough to win, and win they did for sure.

League is far from over, being better in big games isn't nearly as important as in cups, as long as Barcelona beats the lesser teams as they've largely been doing, they have a chance for sure.

Luftstalag14 said:

Domestic competition should be a wrap for Madrid? So much hubris.

Since when has Madrid played great football to please the fans? Not that I can recall. They always did the right things and just enough to win, and win they did for sure.

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Exactly. In 2016, they achieved the amazing feat of having lower possession than Atletico in the CL final. Far from an exuberant team. They kind of pride themselves for not being a club with a culture and a style of play, but one that is focused on winning.

They always brag with the quantity of their wins rather the manner in which they do it. Can't have everything, they are so effective at winning because they are not constrained by having to follow a playing style.

14-15 Real also won 3-1 the first clasico of the season, you know what happened after then...

Fati_Future_BallonDor said:

14-15 Real also won 3-1 the first clasico of the season, you know what happened after then...

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Good comparison, until you look at the team we had back then. It's like football version of The Avengers.

Luftstalag14 said:

Domestic competition should be a wrap for Madrid? So much hubris.

Since when has Madrid played great football to please the fans? Not that I can recall. They always did the right things and just enough to win, and win they did for sure.

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To be fair, they weren't always like that.

I am sure you remember the time when they were sacking Cappelo despite winning the league, because of the shitty football he played?

I think this club underwent a DNA transmutation after Mourinho.
Mourinho is responsible for that, as he 'convinced' them that it is ok to play shitty as long as great Barca is dethrowned.
That attitude was adopted by all his successors ever since, who BTW were ALL playing defensive football (Carlo, Zidane, even Benitez) with the exception of Lopetegi who tried to build something different, and got the sack disrespectfully after 2 months

Tbh, it's not true that they play bad football. Some of their passing sequences are fantastic, they play through the press like a knife through butter and can ping it around effortlessly. If anyone watched the game against Elche today you can see how much quality their game has.

They've gained this reputation of grinding out wins and playing 'shitty' football because they prefer to defend leads rather than add to them and stop attacking after 2 goal leads, after which they stop taking risks and grind out results.

But when they do go forward they play great football and technically it's of a very high level. Our team should learn a thing or two.

[MENTION=29831]ajnotkeith[/MENTION]
Which is precisely that we play rather dire for majority of each match. Preferring to defend a lead is something that improved and we haven't had to chase the game this season other than vs Shakhtar. But we don't even manage that fully, teams normally manage to make the game close. Too close for comfort.
We are interested in 'controlling' games from own half which makes for a poor game when the opponent actually can press us and for long periods of time. Elche are bottom of the table, we should be doing what we did vs them. When we do the same in CL knockouts and end up chasing like crazy in final 15 is how you know we have much of that quality missing. Too much risk, too little of the real control

El Gato said:

[MENTION=29831]ajnotkeith[/MENTION]
Which is precisely that we play rather dire for majority of each match. Preferring to defend a lead is something that improved and we haven't had to chase the game this season other than vs Shakhtar. But we don't even manage that fully, teams normally manage to make the game close. Too close for comfort.
We are interested in 'controlling' games from own half which makes for a poor game when the opponent actually can press us and for long periods of time. Elche are bottom of the table, we should be doing what we did vs them. When we do the same in CL knockouts and end up chasing like crazy in final 15 is how you know we have much of that quality missing. Too much risk, too little of the real control

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You can say maybe he should have won Clasico by more goals, but at the same time, when Madrid opened up and played more aggressive, they looked poor against Xavi's Barca with the 4-0 and also tight Super Cup that went to ET. So I think Carlo made right decision to be more conservative and wait for opportunities on the break and led to relatively easy win in all honesty.

Barca's current pressing scheme is actually pretty good too and gave likes of Bayern difficulty so it's not as easy as it looked to make it seem amateurish, which you guys were doing with some of your passing sequences. I think we didn't really press high because we knew we were getting cut up when we did, which is a credit to Madrid's quality in possession.

Overall I also see Madrid improved from last season despite small sample size and not against many good opponents yet. It looks like your team understand each others movements very well, there is a great spirit, bonding between the front line and young players coming through and stepping up. And overall, more of a brand of football which is starting to resemble 'tiki taka' more than we do.

On the point about not controlling games in CL knockout, you played :

Man City
PSG
Liverpool
Chelsea

At the time, probably the 4 best teams in the world. There will always be phases where you are out of it and the opponent gains momentum, those are very high level opponents and Madrid never been known for possession game anyway let alone against those. In fact would say they held their own very well against City with the ball who are amazing at controlling games.

People keep bringing up the 0-4 as if it's representative. That time we had a CM at CF and a key LB, with whom we have 1-2 losses in 3 years he's been around, missing.

There needs to be a bit of context in these analyses of style.

As for CL knockouts, I don't argue about opponent quality in Europe. Issue for me is we've never really 'led' a tie. I think the way we approach them leaves a lot to be desired

ajnotkeith said:

Tbh, it's not true that they play bad football. Some of their passing sequences are fantastic, they play through the press like a knife through butter and can ping it around effortlessly. If anyone watched the game against Elche today you can see how much quality their game has.

They've gained this reputation of grinding out wins and playing 'shitty' football because they prefer to defend leads rather than add to them and stop attacking after 2 goal leads, after which they stop taking risks and grind out results.

But when they do go forward they play great football and technically it's of a very high level. Our team should learn a thing or two.

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Elche? Come on...

The difference is how they approach games vs Liverpool, City, Bayern etc. They nearly always get dominated, barely hang on, and are clinical on the counter.

Outside 2017 when they were really great, in all their CL wins they sat back, absorbed pressure, often with great keeper performances by Navas and Courtois, and hit teams on the counter. Managed to even get outpassed and lost possession vs Atletico in 2016.

Why do you think last time they trashed us was decades ago? They don't really dominate and attack big teams on a constant basis. When we are crap we slow down the game, keep the ball, and they hit us 2-3 times on the counter, ending up with a 2-1, or a 3-1 win at most.

When we are great, we cut through them and smash them, especially if they are not very sharp. Closest time when we were very close and similar in style was in the days of MSN Barca. Between 2015 Barca and 2017 Madrid it was dead even match-up.

serghei said:

Elche? Come on...

The difference is how they approach games vs Liverpool, City, Bayern etc. They nearly always get dominated, barely hang on, and are clinical on the counter.

Outside 2017 when they were really great, in all their CL wins they sat back, absorbed pressure, often with great keeper performances by Navas and Courtois, and hit teams on the counter. Managed to even get outpassed and lost possession vs Atletico in 2016.

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Don't lump in 2014 with the others, not much luck in that one, and we even had washed-up version of Casillas in goal, which almost cost us the final.

Still lots of counter attacks though, but it was a bit different team.

One of the worst El Clasico performances by Real Madrid. Didn't feel like a derby game at all.

Still I refuse to believe age has caught up with the veteran duo Modric-Kroos in the center. Of course that day is coming and Real are in trouble when Modric is having a bad day.