It's in their blood
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It's in their blood
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Enzo Zidane close to first team?
What a fantastic audition! :mou:
:lol: Probably Mou's most favourite youth player. :O
Like father like son.
Just wanted to drop in and say that according to CIES ( centre for international sports studies, one of the premiere sports research facilities in the world, founded in part by FIFA) has ranked Real Madrid's la fabrica as one of the top 10 youth academies in europe.
The rankings are based upon how many players that come from a club's youth system are now playing in europe's top tier football leagues. ( division 1)
To qualify to be counted the players has to have been a youth player between the ages of 15-21 and have stayed atleast 3 years in the system.
With Players like Morata, Jese, and Cheryshev to make the definite jump, madrid should fall right around 7th to 6th place.
Fc Barcelona is 4th.
Ajax is 1st.
The only other "big club" to even be near the top 10 is manchester united at 17th.
:laporta:
I assume we will overtake Ajax pretty soon since most of our youth players are pushed out anyway nowadays :D
Ajax is first?
Thanks for sharing. We have always had our La Fabrica ranked among the best in the world, not too long ago at the peak of La Masia we were ranked number one, and if I am not mistaken, 18 La Liga teams had a Real Madrid youth player. We just don't use them very well and we just don't have a vertical system like Barcelona does. Our youth set up in the past few years has been focused too much on competitiveness and not first team integration. We wanted every single division of our team to be at the highest possible level and we did that. However, this doesn't promote players to the first team.
Just recently we are promised promotions of our own youth players in Jese, Morata, Nacho etc.
Yeah, they have consistently been very high on those lists. Just look at players from their academy playing at other clubs in Holland: Maher, Lens, Jozefzoon, Castillion, Rodney Sneijder etc. just to name a few.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilles
http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/3j...Top10Footb.jpg
Madrid also has the most youth players in Spanish U teams.
In 13/14 the estimated castilla players to be part of the madrid squad are about 6.
Casillas,Lopez,Arbeloa,Carvajal,Jese,Morata.
Callejon probably leaving.
How many get a chance in the first team though? I dont dispute that they have more players in the youth sides for spain but not many will go on and have a career in the real madrid full side
Jese will probably leave as well. He's growing tired of not being appreciated while Madrid always go off looking to sign guys like Isco, Bale, Cavani, etc. Even Morata might get frustrated if Cavani is signed and he never gets to play.
Whether they will star for the first team will depend on many factors including their quality.
one thing is certain. There is sometimes a misconception about La Fabrica not being efficient enough when producing talent, when in fact madrid over the years have continued to produce plenty, and if anything it is the culture of perez that has arrived to madrid that has greatly affected the amount of fabrica products from joining the first team such as juan mata, soldado, borja valero, etc.
For anyone with time and interest heres a good article about why its so hard for la fabrica players to join first team, goes beyond the quality of the players in many ways.
http://therealmadridzone.blogspot.co...-might_13.html
Zidane has told perez that morata and jese should stay.
Zidane will be 2nd coach in 13/14 meaning they will get some time. But seeing them go on deals like Carvajal wouldnt be too surprising.
But if anything, La Fabrica continues to do a good job. And its also a nice thing to see past players like Ruben De La Red and Fernando Morientes as youth team coaches.
Also Nine of our youth team groups won their leagues in 12/13.
And Real Madrid Castilla ended on top of Fc Barcelona in the league, in their first year.
A good performance but it will be MUCH harder without cheryshev, morata, jese, etc.
How do you know that ?Quote:
Madrid also has the most youth players in Spanish U teams .
@ Shandy http://www.marca.com/2013/06/09/futb...370770984.html
Let me add though that They are counting U19,U20 and U21.
They might have not counted some other U's for their own reasoning but in either case, Atletico seems to be about the 3rd best system in spain but considering their overall rankings in several youth allocations, i say Barcelona and Madrid are still almost without a doubt the most productive systems for the U teams on all levels.
Also just for fun ill post a team made out of la fabrica players that i could see finishing 3rd in la liga and in the CL under a good manager.
Casillas
Carvajal Marco Alonso Nacho Arbeloa
Borja Valero Javi Garcia
Jose Callejon Juan Mata Jese
Roberto Soldado
Subs: Diego Lopez, Alvaro Arbeloa(if not put at lb), Ruben De La Red ( if he was still fine), Esteban Granero, Dani Parejo, Esteban Cambiasso, Alvaro Negredo, and Alvaro Morata.
Id probably buy a cb and a left back out of castilla although im sure im missing some worthy players here or there since this is a pretty fast line up.
Only Barcelona, Dortmund and Ajax are either as good or better when it comes to youth starting 11's as a whole.
Some may have got through but for every one that comes tgrough the system at Madrid there sre s whole bundle who are discarded and the intrinsic reason for that is the galactico mentality. Madrid will always look to splash the cash before promoting youth
Typing on the phone is also s nightmare
Not every player who's been in Real Madrid's academy spent much time there, so it's not like they can all be credited as "Madrid's product" considering that most of their youth and senior development happened away from Madrid.
To be fair the likes of Pedro and Busquets will be counted for Barca it works both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonAndres
Well at youth levels they had different academies but all of the senior development happened at Barca under Pep.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamDav1982
95 percent of all the players i mentioned in my lineup for example spent at the very least the 3 years during the ages of 15-21 as a cantera.
CIES mentions that as the benchmark and i agree.
Based on those stats and realities, Real Madrid's La Fabrica has done one hell of a job on all fronts.
@ Stoke, like i mentioned earlier, Perez is a cancer, but saying "madrid will always...blah blah blah" is incorrect.
Specially when Manolo Sanchis has already given strong reason to believe that he will try to bring an organization like bayern munich's to the club ( the club will be run by player legends such as sanchis and hierro.)
Perez leaves at 2017, after that, the favorites to become president are Martinez Bravo, and A Sanchis styled project.
Things will change drastically as both those promise ideas of a "correct" club that perez has never shown.
Is it incorrect? I think not. Madrid will always look to buy first and the galsctico mentality prevails. A kid coming through the ranks there has to be something really special if he is to make it to the first team
Realistically it is incorrect Stoke.
Its true that the pressure for Madrid to win everything will always be there, but its almost impossible to do worst than what Perez has done for a decade now.
Eugenio Martinez Bravo, and the Sanchis Committee idea are the two favorites, only reason they didnt run for president is because Sanchis and his group are not ready yet, and because Martinez Bravo had no where near the funding needed. ( Perez made it harder for people to run for president with his bullshit rules.)
Both those "favorite" proposals have clearly identified Things like youth development and integration to be primal, and for a modern, progressive, long term idea to be brought to the bernabeu.
They want Madrid to play the attacking football madrid was always known for, with a modern long term twist to it.
If you understand spanish here it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTl65JGDIZk
They hate perez so much, that Martinez Bravo usually attacks perez in the socio meetings, while sanchis and hierro for example have decided not to have a spec of a relationship with Perez.
Things will most likely change, stoke.
These guys would never do this bullsht perez has done in the past like firing Del Bosque, pellegrini, or Contracting people like bale or mourinho.
They promise long term plans, spanish player focus, and youth team focus. ( and they show they stick by their ideals because of their quite public disspraise of perez.)
They might actually team up, Bravo is about 43 years old i believe, and Sanchis has said hed like to bring a bayern munich like structure, but has made it seem like it doesnt nessecarily mean he will be the president.
Bravo + Sanchis, Hierro, and etc, and i run around naked for a whole year lol.
To be realistic, This is Perez's last term, he leaves in 4 years, and if Sanchis/Hierro run, NO ONE will beat them.
It would be like Puyol and Pique running in the future as a committee to run barcelona and losing to joe smoes who promise nothing.
Perez is the chief advocate of the galactico philosophy for sure but a change of president wont mean a change of philosophy. Madrid have not got the patience to cultivate and bring through youngsters into the first team. They will always seek to buy anyone with a name and spend big. Do you really think anyone running madrid will have the patience to build something along the barca la masia model with the aim of bringing through a set of youngsters together to be the spine of a succesful future first team? The philosophy is in evidence now. Reaction to barca success? Spend spend spend as much as is possible and it is the philosophy of the club, not just to be attributed solely to perez. Thats just to convenient and simplistic
Meaning that a change in president wont mean a change of philosophy is incorrect to say. Both Martinez Bravo, and Sanchis, along with a plethora of other high placed people in Real Madrid have spoken against what Perez has done.
The goals are to Make Madrid play Sexy football, with a long term plan, and with more spanish players.
This has not been a priority for Perez.
You have to understand that before Perez, Madrid was really everything that People want it to be AGAIN, except for the long term ideals, which are realistic and correct, and you would have to be in denial to think that guys SPECIALLY like the ones i mentioned wouldnt help implement these ideas.
You are misunderstanding how Real Madrid really works. Perez brought in the Galactico mentality, heck Barcelona have changed alot from the 90's into the modern era along with their presidents...
The whole football world is rolling towards the progressive thinking when it comes to long term, Chelsea have tried by abramovich is a clown, Man City are doing it ( they have really talented folks in all areas), Bayern Munich have done so and it is now showing and will continue to show, and once Perez leaves, id bet that it will also follow this this progressive, long term trend.
Football clubs want to be institutions more so than ever, and the problem for madrid is that it has always been one really, but everything that perez has brought to it has derailed it from really exploiting all its power and resources. ( cantera, failure to build football plans, etc.)
You are talking as if Madrid cant change, or as if it has always been galactico crazed, when in reality, Majority of bullsht madrid carries is due to perez.
People want to set things right and they most likely will.
Perez is most to blame, almost all of the club's legends have gone away from Madrid like heirro, sanchis, del bosque, because they knows its not right.
You have to understand this.
Perez is lucky to have changed rules in the elections so much, and to have so much money, because i doubt the socios would really vote for him in a real race.
Most fans and legends KNOW perez is wrong, yet you say Madrid cant change things that for the mosrt part arent even it's fault to the core?
I respect your opinion but as i have shown, i dont know agree, with very valid reasoning.
2017 a new era awaits.
Martinez Bravo http://www.abc.es/Media/201106/09/eu...o--644x362.jpg
Manolo Sanchis http://retrosport.files.wordpress.co...lo-sanchis.jpg
90 percent assurance that one of them will be part of the new reign, if not working together.
Im not talking about a change in tactics or a change in the teams style, im referring to the manner in which madrid build a team. Have they the patience to build a side composing players brought through their youth system? Would the powers that be at madrid resist the urge to go for 'galactico' signings and give a untried youth player his chance? I find that very hard to see happening at madrid.
I was talking about the management in that as well.
Like i already proved to you with the video, and i can link you up with plenty more, the candidates for next presidency are very intelligent and they are out to fix everything perez has managed to f%ck. The legends know it, the candidates know it, and the fans know it. Under these guys no one in madrid would ever go after a guy like mourinho or bale lol.
They all want to give the youth more opportunities, you have to understand that this galactico mentality you have embedded in your mind is more around 70 percent due to perez.
What these guys want to do is what any sane club would do which is buy the players they need to play good football under a long term complex.
Some of the ideal things would be to give time to youth players that prove that they have what it takes.
Such as juan mata and roberto soldado.
And also not going outside to get players like ozil or benzema when you have silva and villa.
I think ive said what i have to say. If you think Real Madrid is galactico it self in that way i cant say anything else than " i disagree" at this point.
Perez is the one who brought this david beckham galactico bullsht that i understand you are talking about.
Men like bravo and sanchis want to bring back the sanity perez though away. End of.
Martinez is all talk and no substance .. this is the third election is a row he claim he will run for the office and than pass out due to lack of guarantee and backers
It won't change in 2017.. you need to have guarantees from a bank or backers from your team who will be sitting in the board of directors ...
Platforma Blanca is a good group but not enough substance to convinces the Socio's , it's just like a member on the forum with good talk but he didn't walk the walk. .not against Calderon , Perez before and Perez now and whoever will be in the future
I don't like Perez but slamming his economic brilliance is foolish , if he didn't buy those galactico's we would be were Atletico Madrid is now .. the problem was never in buying Becks and co , the problem was the Pavon's were shit and the involvement in first team affairs was destructive (Del Bosque , Hierro , Makalele - Hiring yes man managers to play the stars )
But that's all been the first stint , i commend Perez approach the second term and he is doing it right .. he is away from the team affairs , in trusted Jose with more powers than any manager in the history of Real and even the current project looks promising
Just because someone say i will restore the old glory doesn't mean he is right or he know how, to quote you "The fans know it , the socio's know it and the legends know it " that's why the only time you will here Martinez running for presidency is on the pages of AS & Marca
As for the old stars has all left... What do you call Karanka , Butragueno (Valdano before ) and now Zidane ?
Wallbreaker, with all due respect, you have not proved anything so please spare the assertion that you have everything boxed off. As beast states above, nothing is proven with these other supposed candidates and it does seem to me your anti-Perez stance clouds everything else. Would the galactico philosophy die with perez departure? Very hard to see a sea change in approach and very hard to see Madrid have the patience to give youth its head. Im not necessarily being anti-Madrid here but their fans demand sensational signings and that is the club approach
I dont agree stoke. As i said, the culture of perez has brought alot of this galactico culture.
Before perez it was not like this. You making an incorrect assertion by saying that madrid at its core is like that and always will be. Very incorrect.
Beast it saddens me that you think of Martinez this way. Its incorrect.
The bottom line here is that he hasnt been able to produce the enormous amounts of money that it takes to run against perez, which is near 70 million.
Just because he hasnt been able to run due to lack of resources it doesnt mean he doesnt have good ideas.
And when it comes to substance, you are incorrect again the way i see it.
Perez doesnt offer much more than his galactico bullsht, and he doesnt want to build any type of football project of the kinds that are though of by guys like martinez or sanchez.
I never said that the club hasnt had great economic effect with perez but other than that...FFS.
I believe you are incorrect with you assertion of martinez. I can link you a video where all of the main people from AS that are also socios really tell a good story of martinez' ideas.
Just because perez wins doesnt mean hes the only one with substance. The guy has barely any substance other than for marketing ffs.
Butragueno and Zidane? Cmon now...Rumors are that a big reason as to why zidane decided not to be general manager is because perez didnt want to give him full powers. I really doubt zidane would really go after bale, despite the price. Perez is the one who wants bale.
And please you have to admit that guys like raul, hierro, sanchis, del bosque, have all gone away and with good reason. Del Bosque even refused to pick up his madrid honororary award last year.
Heck even valdano! He brought the classy man pellegrini, but was fired by perez just to keep the satan and failure that is mourinho.
And to say that we would be where atletico is now is a disgrace.
I know u r a perez fan but cmon.
Perez had never had the best infrastructure for footballing reasons or for youth.
Well we have to agree to disagree but there will have to be some departure from the sign sign sign mentality of Madrid and i cannot see it happening.
Agree to Disagree.
Departure, i am very confident there will be, as it wasnt here to such a degree when perez came here.
Many clubs want to opt for more progressive terms and Madrid's favorites to be its next president want to go that way.
Remember, when we won the CL in 2002 it was with the bulk of the 1999-2000 group, by 03-04 Perez inflicted the galactico mentality and fired legends and brought in clowns. No doubt in my mind that madrid could have been much more successful from 03-04 to the present ( 10 years) if it wasnt for that bastard.
The way we brought in kids like guti, raul, and casillas during the years prior to perez hasnt been replicated, despite players like mata, and its no coincidence perez was here.
Madrid prior to Perez was not sign sign sign.
And pretty much any well informed fan or legend will tell u perez is not the right way.
And let me also say that Even Perez learned a little bit, he gave power to the coach (wrong one) and did alot of bullshit, but he hasnt spent galactically, other than this bale bullshit.
If perez would have gotten laudrup so that a truly nice and modern football could be played here it would be nice, but he brings in carlo and maybe bale which is a disgrace to me, but hopefully it goes well, and carlo an build something good.
But goes to show all this spending has been more to Perez. So has the football.
He even fired valdano, who had brought in Pellegrini and decided to stick with mourinho.
A true retard this perez.
But goes to show, most of the craziness is his fault. Sporting directors weve had like valdano have done great jobs.
Del bosque was fired and valdano had a bit to do with it, but the idea based on how valdano mentions it is that madrid would go towards a different direction than what perez did after del bosque. Valdano was a bit tricked in 03.
First , we were the first to do a "Galactico project " back in the 50's , it's part of OUR cultureQuote:
Originally Posted by WallBreaker
second , due to Spain limitation of foreign imports in the 60's it faded away (and we had great team ) than it was limited by UEFA rules and the fabrica jewels (quinta del Butra etc )
We went through transitions in the early 90's and dire financial situation in the late 90's
Back to Martinez
1- The amount of money was decided by the socio's in the general assembly , that's as democratic as it get .. has nothing to do with Perez .. if you are running a club with 1/2 a billion Euro turnover (the biggest income in football ) you need to have some guarantee you can payback the club if you mismanage it.. that's what the fans want and always want.. the difference is the increase in club revenue made the 15 % equivalent to 75 Million and one thing you learn along the years which is "the Socio's are always right "
2- he doesn't need to pay the money , he either find a businessman backer (be part of the board of directors and there is plenty like Villar - Mir and others ) or a bank
other than that he is longing for his 60 minute in the spotlight
I know Martinez i followed him since the formation of platforma blanca , he was so similar to Laporta but as i said he failed to present anything apart from idea's any Madrid forum member in our forum or here can present .. he hides for 4 years and come out 2 month before the elections to announce he may run if he find the money ...
I'm sorry but as someone in business it gives me a lot of doubt about how he will conduct his affairs (if he ever wins ) .. you don't wait till 2 month before the elections to beg for some mystery money backer.. you work your ass off since 2009 to form a team that has the financial ability to compete with Perez not throw some stupid announcement backed by Prisma/As after he took out Roncero & Relano to dinner and they started their short ill-fated campaign for his case afterwards (and you know how it is in Spain so not a surprise )
I mentioned Zidane and Butragueno as an example..there is Pardeza as well and the awesome Valdano , there is De La Red ,Santiago Solari, Morientes and plenty of ex-players in charge of either the Cantera or an admin job at the club ... what are you talking about ?
As for Zizou no , Zidane wanted to be on the bench because he want to take on the coaching role later one .. that's his choice and that's why he spent a year in France doing his studies for the coaching badge .. so you are wrong
Hierro leaving broke my heart .. so did Del Bosque.. that's a clear cut mistakes Perez did , however that was 10 years ago , the new Perez has shown he learned from his mistakes and that won many people over from the Socio's to his opposition (unless you are gunning for fame like Martinez )
As for Raul (since i lived a year in Qatar ) he is settled over there and he will be working in Aspire Zone after he retire along with our old Director Ivan Bravo who is in charge of Aspire Zone academy 3 years ago (fabulous mind ) .. however as legend Raul is this was the best football decision in a while , Raul guaranteed starts was turning to a big cancer eating the club out...
Sanchis ? do you really have all the facts or just throwing names mate ? .. you can ask Sanchis in his weekly chat on Marca (because he was asked gazillion times ) he wants to stay away from football management and happy as a writer plus he retired when he was 36 ! he didn't leave ?!!! and he didn't go away
Valdano was fired !?that's a new one.. Valdano resigned due to his fallout with Jose and Perez wanting to try the football manager (EPL style ) so the position was conflicting moreover Valdano will always be a Madrid man in our out
I'm a Perez fan ?!! :lol: :lol: nice one fella
Do you know what you are talking about ? we had 350 Million in debt under Sanz but i guess you didn't know that... the same way you clearly don't know a lot about the club as it seems
If Perez didn't sell the training ground , pushed the Madrid city council to re-zone the area permit , than bought it back through his company and other construction companies we would be where Atletico Madrid is now ..
You need to read more about the club , you make nice posts but you lack the facts behind the storytelling
Before you tell me i lack the facts learn to understand what i am saying.
One of my points was that many people that stand for what Madrid's values represent have fallen out with perez.
You mentioned guys like ruben de la red and morientes but in reality they are not the Madrid pillars i refer to. Its like comparing someone like Yaya Toure to someone like Pep Guardiola or Puyol.
Real Madrid legends have been disgraced, and the way the club has been run has led to many of them publicly staying away from the club just like Del Bosque.
Also you are confused with the galatico term and it surprises me that a fan such as your self would make such an assertion.
When i talk about galactico, i talk about the era like the ones perez has brought where he has bought players the club didnt need, and were over priced such as kaka and beckham. You are confusing legend, and having great players and a great team, with the lavish spending spree, illogical bullshit that perez has brought.
Also i referred to you as a perez fan because some of the stuff you say would sound ridiculous if coming from someone thats not a perez fan, to me, but oh well my mistake then.
I never attacked Perez's economic prowess, but when it comes to football, the guy is a retard. He could have built something where Real Madrid plays attractive footy like Spain, but he hasnt because hes a dumbass. He gave power to someone like mourinho and it didnt pay off. Perez has been a cancer to madrid in many ways. His only true success has been in the economic side.
Heck his most recent failure has been real madrid island resort. That thing has been postponed indefinatley if not forever, despite the noise made 2 years ago.
We could do way better than Perez and if you are going to use the classic " we could be doing worst" act then this stops now lol.
You need to read more into logic if you ask me lol. Madrid has been a piece of crap with the football buddy. And that is a fact. Thanks for some economical stuff perez but the bullshit that he has brought, i will never forgive.
Only abramovich comes close to such BS in recent times in big clubs.'
Mourinho wants full power and asked for valdano's head and he got it. You telling me that he stepped down is a disgrace. If anything it was a mutual agreement that valdano had to gtfo because perez preferred others.
You apparently fail to understand to the fullest that perez has been a disgrace to the football and the youth of madrid.
You fail to understand, that many of the pillars of madridismo have gone away while perez is president because hes a dumbass.
And you fail to understand that valdano is another casualty.
You also fail to understand the meaning of galactico bullsht apparently.
And you are assuming Raul would get unjustified starts but it goes back to perez for not establishing a good manager or good football project. Raul should have gotten a legendary goodbye but instead he left in a whimper.
this stuff about the economics, i understand it, but it is only one of the tools perez has purposefully imposed such as the 20 year old thing to stop guys like arnaz.
You are confusing backing with potential and intelligence of ideas.
I really doubt Martinez lacks substance to the point you give. Although i do agree with what you said about starting getting support for years, considering he has been in this for years, what hes said, and his madridismo, i have no doubt he would do better than perez ever would in the football side. I am not putting him out of the equation. He is young and have given very serious moves. You could use such arguments that u r using for many other candidates!
As perez had no competition, this does not mean there arent great ideas out there. There are some very tough demands to meet, and perez made them harder.
And please.. about sanchis.
He has given interviews in multiple places such as COPE...heres a collection.
http://www.cope.es/ResultadosBusqued...ONTENIDO=TODOS
indeed he has never made it seem like its the utmost interest to become president himself as i stated when i first mentioned him, but he has brought interest MULTIPLE times to the table about the fact that bringing a project like bayern munich's would be interesting, and he himself has said that he does not discount running for such a thing, but at the moment he wasnt gonna run in any way against perez.
Google sanchis and madrid and you will find dozens of articles on it. Recent too.
Cmon now.
i hope that they do run because one of the names mentioned as possible succesor as president is one of perez's cronies and id bring a revolver to my mouth if that ever happened lol.
More about sanchis
http://ecodiario.eleconomista.es/int...jugadores.html
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/201305...374312278.html
http://www.publico.es/deportes/22909...es-la-solucion
http://elpais.com/diario/2011/11/26/...03_850215.html
0 points in 6 games. :hooray:
:worthy:
Enjoying your new team, Kiko? :lol:
It's quite normal with Morata , Jese , Nacho , Casemiro all last year stars all moved to the first team , some released , some sold...the team is the under 19 C team so this is quite a big step for them ... if they can produce another 4 first team players it's a success ;)