21 - Frenkie de Jong

Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
jamrock said:
It's the engine of the team we should reply on them, the issue of once pedri is meh or Average everything falls apart in the Midfield.
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Not necessarily. Biggest issue at moment is that Olmo doesn't help as much in terms of covering ground. Was less of a problem when you have likes of Raphinha and Lamine and Balde that can compensate for that.

Too much overanalysed. Collective pressing is big part of system. Missing all of our players with the most pace in the squad is a big hit to that system.
Then rest of team will suffer as can't be compensated. Then defenders more exposted etc and everyone looking poor.
 
khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Yeah, we were essentially playing with only 2 midfielders while opponents overcrowding that area, both getting outnumbered almost instantly and consistently.

Olmo is MIA, Rashford and Lewa are useless for pressing and build up, Martin being Martin, Kounde is in his annual shit form.

This are 5 essential players in controlling midfield, not directly (other than Olmo) but in keeping numbers and outlets for everyone.

Frenkie and Pedri are probably the only 2 players I would give some leeway in current dip in form.
 
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
Horatio said:
Not necessarily. Biggest issue at moment is that Olmo doesn't help as much in terms of covering ground. Was less of a problem when you have likes of Raphinha and Lamine and Balde that can compensate for that.

Too much overanalysed. Collective pressing is big part of system. Missing all of our players with the most pace in the squad is a big hit to that system.
Then rest of team will suffer as can't be compensated. Then defenders more exposted etc and everyone looking poor.
Click to expand...

Olmo's issue has always been identified by all and is a worrying situation. It was especially obvious against Inter that we need an attacking midfielder who can drop back into midfield and offer help.

Missing those players should affect our ability to beat this Sevilla team, especially with the form Rashford and Torres have been in. Rashford showed up; Torres was invisible.

But all of that doesn't change the fact that our midfield is toothless once Pedri is having an off day. When anyone else in our midfield gets praise for having a good to excellent game, Pedri is always there being rated at the same level or higher. It's not a coincidence.

The players in midfield need to step their games up; we can't be totally reliant on one man.
 
Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
jamrock said:
Olmo's issue has always been identified by all and is a worrying situation. It was especially obvious against Inter that we need an attacking midfielder who can drop back into midfield and offer help.

Missing those players should affect our ability to beat this Sevilla team, especially with the form Rashford and Torres have been in. Rashford showed up; Torres was invisible.

But all of that doesn't change the fact that our midfield is toothless once Pedri is having an off day. When anyone else in our midfield gets praise for having a good to excellent game, Pedri is always there being rated at the same level or higher. It's not a coincidence.

The players in midfield need to step their games up; we can't be totally reliant on one man.
Click to expand...

Rashford doesn't have same workrate as Raphinha. Torres has workrate but Lamine is much more explosive than him but can be lazy at times yeah.
 
Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
jamrock said:
The players in midfield need to step their games up; we can't be totally reliant on one man.
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Exactly we can't. That's my point. Many players now criticized disproporitonally on individual level when we are getting overrun as whole now due to not being able to win ball back as before.

What you also get with other players now having to overcompensate is that they will get tired faster. In the end just collapses.
 
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
Horatio said:
Rashford doesn't have same workrate as Raphinha. Torres has workrate but Lamine is much more explosive than him.
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All that is fine when we are talking about a PSG, no excuse for Sevilla.

Name a game where pedri was poor and the other two, whoever they are, has excellent games, anyone will be hard pressed to find those game, because they are few.

Name a game were the other two in Midfield was poor and Pedri showed up and made a impact, no one has to go that far, it happen literally yesterday.

Again it's not a coincidence, I know you don't want to accept de Jong's good performances are almost exclusively linked to Pedri's, but it's just the truth.
 
Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
jamrock said:
Again it's not a coincidence, I know you don't want to accept de Jong's good performances are almost exclusively linked to Pedri's, but it's just the truth.
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I don't have a problem with that statement when Pedri's alternatives are quite a notch down. Just common sense that with Pedri you are much better than with whomever is subbing for him.

But the same goes other way around. Isn't there a stat that shows that if Frenkie doesn't play team not winning happens way more frequently?
 
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
Horatio said:
I don't have a problem with that statement when Pedri's alternatives are quite a notch down. Just common sense that with Pedri you are much better than with whomever is subbing for him.

But the same goes other way around. Isn't there a stat that shows that if Frenkie doesn't play team not winning happens way more frequently?
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That stat was heavily influenced by the pre Xavi era because when we were shit and Pedri had injury issues.

We saw how we played when de jong was injured in Xavi's last season, I think we lost 1 game in those 2 months.

We saw how well casado replaced him last season.

Also in busquets last season whenever busquet went out, he struggled, that's where I came up with the Midfield daddy line, he just needs someone beside him to do the heavy lifting, not a non issue a long, everyone in our Midfield it's the same thing, we have 1 alpha, everyone else is a beta
 
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
Horatio said:
Rashford doesn't have same workrate as Raphinha. Torres has workrate but Lamine is much more explosive than him but can be lazy at times yeah.
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Can't use rashford as an excuse even with his lack of defensive effort compared to raphinha, most players will lose that comparison.

Rashford was the the primary reason we had a chance yesterday, with the goal and involvement on the PK
 
Horatio

Horatio

You're welcome
jamrock said:
That stat was heavily influenced by the pre Xavi era because when we were shit and Pedri had injury issues.

We saw how we played when de jong was injured in Xavi's last season, I think we lost 1 game in those 2 months.

We saw how well casado replaced him last season.
Click to expand...
barcauniversal.com

Four games, no wins – Barcelona’s record under Flick when neither Lamine nor De Jong started

FC Barcelona take on Valencia later tonight at Estadi Johan Cruyff in Matchday 4 of the 2025/26 La Liga, hoping to get back to winning ways. The Blaugrana go into the game without some very key players, including Lamine Yamal and Frenkie de Jong – both permanent fixtures in Hansi Flick’s...
barcauniversal.com barcauniversal.com
 
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
Even if everything said was correct about x number of players having off games, so it affects him, that still just proves the point: too many players in the midfield need everything to be in sync for them to deliver.

As one poster who called him a Rolls Royce player, said he needs everything to be well-oiled to deliver.

Pedri is the only player in our midfield that can deliver when things aren't perfect, which is why he is our only WC midfielder. You don't become WC when things are good and in harmony; you do so in the difficult times and you rise to the occasion.

But Olmo has been even worse, especially this season. We need more players with character like Fermin and Gavi; even if they aren't Pedri, they will at least bleed for the cause, to get us over the line.
 
P

Porque

Senior Member
Early last season we had Casado on form.

Then latter half seasons we had Eric to bring into midfield who was decent.

Yesterday Flick didn't want to change anything.

And he's shit scared to bring on Bernal after the PSG shocker.

Olmo having a shitter? Stayed on while he (or Fermin) is usually hooked at half time when not performing.

The issue last night is we had no trustworthy alternatives and the idea was to weather the storm and take our chances when they come. Which didn't as we missed a pen and the Roony high xG chances.

Actually end of first half we quickened put pace and looked like that's how the second half would go.

The fact that we didn't, and instead dropped back down to a snail pace and let Sevilla back in is the big question. Of the day.

Why? It is not as if Sevilla were playing that heavy metal or with much quality. They just wanted it more.

Sad.
 
jamrock

jamrock

Senior Member
Yea agreed still have no idea why olmo finished the game and he brought on Christensen when it was over.

One of Christensen, Garcia, casado should have come on for olmo who had no business finishing the game and push pedri forward, it's better than doing nothing
 
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