Qatar FC

jamrock said:

Point?

Because I don't think you thought that one through at all.

Having read me literally saying nothing is wrong with investor's coming into a club and gave Chelsea as an example.

you're debating for the sake of it, without a larger point to make.

PSG owned by county
Others invested in by individuals and companies.

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My overall point is that - at some stage, and it was on a smaller scale - every club has had outside investment. Not on the grand scale of now, but my point is that Man United, Liverpool etc only became 'historical clubs' because at one point they were pumped full of outside money. That money was local, not foreign, but point stands. United even almost went out of business twice (google John henry davies and James Gibson).

My point is that, yes, it has gone too extreme the other way with states. But how else could a club compete with the 'traditional' clubs when those clubs attract the most fans and hence revenue streams? It would just continue to build on itself in perpetuity.

Do you really want a closed shop where only Barca, Real Madrid, Bayern Milan (people not moaning about Berlusconi's dirty money there because it isn't from the Middle East?), man United, Liverpool. Arsenal rule forever and everyone else gets fuck all? Sounds extremely capitalist to me. Thought Barca were meant to be a left wing club.

I also agree with you in some aspects. My overall point is that there's no other way for clubs to catch up than with immoral states taking them over. And clubs like Man United and Real Madrid and Barca created the conditions for that with their greed.

Also, Christian Bale getting paid more than a lesser actor is a poor analogy.

Christian Bale is an individual, who is paid based on how good he is at acting or how much of a star he is, on his own merits.

The traditional clubs is more akin to nepotism i.e. an actor with famous parents or grandparents getting parts just because their family has power and wealth. Old money vs new money etc.

Bale is actually a bit more like PSG - has no history in acting or previous family, unless he does and I am not aware (or football, relatively speaking) and has done well based on building a career, even if he had some help along the way from friend or whatever. If Bale has a famous father or something, sub in Brad Pitt or someone whose family has no history in acting.

Unlike Bale, barca aren't where they are just now based on pure talent, from an equal start with others. Barca have been able to make more money than mid-table clubs because of history giving them more in the present too, and an unfair individual TV deal.

The individual TV deal totally destroys your point, and you haven't acknowledged it yet. You can't complain about fairness when Rm and Barca do everything to keep the rest of La Liga down.

Anyway, it probably sounds like I am trying to wind you lot up and digging at Barca.

That isn't my intention - I want Barca to win stuff and prefer them as a club to PSG easily. I am just saying there are no good guys at the elite level of football. All these clubs are cunts. Look at 'traditional historic' Man United - laying off minimum wage workers and not doing anything to the millionaire footballers, expecting the taxpayer to pay for their stadium, fleecing all their fans for all they are worth. Some of their fans were also desperate for Qatar, then when that didn't come to fruition these same fans done a 180 and started calling PSG an oil club, again. It's hilarious.

Football is a corrupt sport and business. Barca are part of that. Maybe they're not quite as bad as PSG but they'd still sell every last one of you to make a euro. Anyone who thinks an elite club is morally good is naive. Football is a business for cunts.

I bet if Saudi Arabia wanted to give Barca 1 billion euros tomorrow you lot wouldn't object on moral grounds. Because what really annoys fans isn't the moral aspect or 'fairness, spirit of the game' - it's that their club isn't winning and another club is.

Like Liverpool fans claiming to care loads about human rights in Abu Dhabi - absolute bollocks and virtue signaling, all they care about is Man City taking trophies from them that they feel entitled to. I don't remember them giving a fuck before they had a rivalry with City. In fact they laughed when City beat their true rivals, United, in 2012 with the Agueroooo.

Anyway, I think almost everything I have said is correct, and would get upvoted relentlessly on Bluemoon, for example.

But obviously on Barcaforum or rawk or redcafe or bayernzone it will go down about as well as Harvey Weinstein attending a women's rights group. That's the tribalism aspect of football.

I like Barca, and consider the Pep team the best ever, I loved watching it and Messi, but am not a fan in the official sense (ie I don't really care if Barca win or lose, it doesn't affect me much like it does you guys), so am more objective about them than you are. I am not blinded to their lack of ethics or the club's flaws (same as every other big club) like you guys are, and not brutally biased because I am not a supporter.

PSG sports washing is finally working I see

Amazing how, a Qatar state owned football team with unlimited funds have re-written history as plucky underdogs who threw out big bad Mbappe and rebuilt the team "the right way", so many loveable characters.

I can respect Lucho but the glazing is getting a bit much when people are comparing this team to the GOAT Barca team.

Givenchy said:

PSG sports washing is finally working I see

Amazing how, a Qatar state owned football team with unlimited funds have re-written history as plucky underdogs who threw out big bad Mbappe and rebuilt the team "the right way", so many loveable characters.

I can respect Lucho but the glazing is getting a bit much when people are comparing this team to the GOAT Barca team.

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Never said they were plucky underdogs that is a straw man and I nor anyone else has said that. or that I like them or think what they're doing is correct. I also think the World Cup should not have been in Qatar for many reasons.

My point is that every elite clubs is immoral and only cares about their own well being. That isn't a defence of PSG so much as it is an attack on the delusions of traditional clubs.

In an ideal world there would be no need for PSG to exist in their current state (no pun intended). But it isn't an ideal world, and Barca and Man United and Liverpool are partly responsible for the Middle Eastern states involvement in football.

If anything, I am the only honest guy in here. I like you guys, but none of you care about sports washing or human rights - all you care about is that PSG can spend much more than barca and are a better team than them. If Man City and PSG had failed as projects I doubt you'd give a fuck - you're just angry because they're being successful and you view trophies as the right of clubs like Barca and Liverpool, not 'nothing clubs' like Man City and PSG.

If you think I like the Middle East, you are sorely mistaken.

I like you Givenchy and the other guys here, usually agree with you on football, but not on this particular matter. It's the truth.

You're all acting like Barca are a 'good, moral' club, which is fucking ridiculous. They take money from the same Qatar when it suits them and keep the rest of La Liga in line with individual TV deals.

I repeat THERE ARE NO GOOD GUYS AR THE TOP fOOTBALL. Not PSG, not Barca, not City, not United, not Liverpool. All these clubs are immoral and would throw everyone of us in a ditch for more money or the prestige of a league title.

Football fandom is stupid in general because you all support a club that doesn't give a fuck about you. This blind tribalism is another big reason I am falling out of love with the game.

Maradona37 said:

So does that mean Leganes should just accept that they'll be second to Barca forever then? That's essentially what you want, eh. The big 6 or 7 history clubs to rule forever. Pathetic.

Barca can spend much more than leganes because of history and the individual TV deals. For someone talking about fairness earlier on, you continually ignore this point.

I haven't missed the point, I just totally disagree.

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Your view of fairness is what comunism was about.

serghei said:

Your view of fairness is what comunism was about.

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So let me get this straight.

It's ok for Barca to have more money than 99.9 percent of clubs, and rule over them, and have individual deals to keep them down. That's fine. But it's not ok for two or three clubs to have infinitely more resources than Barca? Because those two to three clubs are the ones keeping you from winning CLs (and Inter are a 'traditional club' and it's your own fault you couldn't get past them, rather than worry about PSG ask why you conceded 7 goals in two games against a good but not amazing attack like theirs).

Also, you didn't 'earn' a lot of your money - a lot of clubs were given handouts which positioned them as the powers of the present. And Barca do more than their fair share to make dirty money. And I don't consider exploiting others and making money through selling Ryan Giggs bedcovers or Sergio Ramos tea cups to glory hunters 'the right way' in football.

You sound like a nepo baby or extreme capitalist.

No, ultra capitalist would be to support PSG. I'm against both comunism and ultra capitalism.

You compare Barca with Leganes. Where was Leganes in the 1920s - 50s?

serghei said:

No, ultra capitalist would be to support PSG. I'm against both comunism and ultra capitalism.

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You didn't address my middle paragraphs, and continue to evade the individual TV deals points.

Why is it okay for Barca to have much more money than 99.9 percent of clubs, largely based on history and immorally fleecing supporters, but it's not okay for a few clubs to have more than them? It's just your tribalism kicking in. You're just frustrated because PSG are European champions and Barca are not.

If you and Barca are so concerned with fairness in the game, why are you condoning Barca and Real Madrid keeping the rest of La Liga down with ind. TV deals? PL has a collective (though if Liverpool and United could get away with it they'd want ind. too).

The point is every elite club is a cunt of a club, including Barca. The fact you support them as this is a forum for them doesn't exclude them from that.

maybe I should just stop posting in here. You're all guys I get on with and generally agree with, but your tribalism as Barca fans blinds you hugely on this debate and makes you extremely biased. Same as every other club (including the 'sports washing' clubs' fans in the other direction).

I ask you why is it ok for anyone to earn more than somebody else?

Also, nobody forced Barca or Man United to be laughably run in recent years, and waste fortunes on players who didn't work out. You have had more than enough resources to be a sufficient club but fucked it up, hence being in the dire financial predicament you and United now find yourselves in. You made bad decisions. Your fault, not PSG's.

serghei said:

I ask you why is it ok for anyone to earn more than somebody else?

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But it's based on unchangeable history (nepotism in effect), immoral earnings (fleecing supporters, like all clubs do), attracting glory hunters (very shallow) and keeping others down (individual TV deals).

You act like it's purely innocent, like Bale earning more because he's better at acting (going back to previous point).

It's not just football - nepotism and lack of morals exists everywhere. Barca are part of that whether you like it or not. It's not like every other big club is morally reprehensible and Barca are saints

I mean you are moaning about lack of fairness re PSG, when you're keeping clubs like Betis and Sociedad down with the TV deals. You're so oblivious that you don't realise fans of those clubs feel exactly the same about you and RM as you feel about PSG and City. In fact, I would say a lot of smaller clubs fans prefer PSG and CIty to Barca and United because they see them as upsetting the established applecart and saying a big fuck you to the old order.

Maradona37 said:

But it's based on immoral earnings (fleecing supporters, like all clubs do), attracting glory hunters (very shallow) and keeping others down (individual TV deals).

You act like it's purely innocent, like Bale earning more because he's better at acting (going back to previous point).

It's not just football - nepotism and lack of morals exists everywhere. Barca are part of that whether you like it or not. It's not like every other big club is morally reprehensible and Barca are saints

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Yeah, it's not based on immoral earnings. It's mainly based on achieving important things consistently through time.