7 - Ferran Torres

serghei

Senior Member
So what? Playing at international level isn't the be all and end all. Loads of players do ok for their country but aren't the same at club level. France have a lot of depth in attacking positions so no shame in that for Mbeumo.

Rate players with your eyes and by watching them - not by how many caps and goals they have for their countries. Yours is the argument that makes little sense. I'd also bet without researching that most of Torres's goals come against poor teams in qualifiers for Spain.

You honestly seem like the type of modern football glory hunter who thinks smaller clubs only exist to serve and bend over for Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man United, Liverpol, Bayern, Inter etc. Like the top of the food chain is all that matters.

Also, don't think I don't notice your selective quoting and arguing, which I despise and is always the way of the intellectually redundant. You deliberately omitted my point about Salah and Robbo as you know you cannot dispute it.

A massive open secret and key to success in football is finding bargains and players waiting to explode from smaller clubs or teams, and extracting max potential from them. Guys like you would have gone for Pogba in 2016 or 2017 over Salah (I know they're different positions and Salah moved the next summer but bear with me) because he 'had done it at a higher level and shown more in the big competitions'. How did that work out for Man United and Liverpool? Actually it's funny because Man United are finally trying to do something right by going for lesser names (although they're still paying a lot) who could break out at a bigger club, rather than PR merchants like Pogba.

You think teams should pay 70m for a very average player like Ferran Torres yet have the cheek to tell other people they're talking bollocks.

Some good points, but Torres isn't done progressing. So you assume Mbeumo and Cunha are gonna improve, but Torres somehow flattered to deceive last season. I think you haven't paid much attention to Ferran's performances this last season.

Yeah, it's Flick. Too bad Flick couldn't make Fati look like a decent footballer.
 

Maradona37

Well-known member
Some good points, but Torres isn't done progressing. So you assume Mbeumo and Cunha are gonna improve, but Torres somehow flattered to deceive last season. I think you haven't paid much attention to Ferran's performances this last season.
Ok fair enough. I apologise for my aggressive tone. I just have a bee in my bonnet when people talk like players at smaller clubs suck. So I apologise for the ad homs.

Tbh I have seen Ferran this season, but my impression is he started showing better performances more towards the end of the season. I still think it's more form than a permanent improvement, and that Flick has helped it along a lot. That is why I said it is a risk for other teams. I usually think you're a good poster (despite my aggression towards you tonight), but can you hand on heart say that people should pay 70m for Torres?

I am saying the same about Madueke, Garnacho, Elanga and other simply 'decent' players moving for a lot of money this close season. The money in football has got completely out of line.

oh and about this:

'So you assume Mbeumo and Cunha are gonna improve,'

I actually think they'll both flop and you'll be able to use this against me in a year lol. BGut that is more down to United than them. Most guys United sign are average or poor but these two are actually quite good.
 

serghei

Senior Member
All this talk about nothing. You think Cunha and Mbeumo are better players and don't trust Ferran. I think Ferran can keep up this level and even build on it. Gonna see the outcome. Maybe you're right and Torres is gonna go back to disappoint. Maybe Torres bags 30-35 goals and assists next season.
 

Maradona37

Well-known member
All this talk about nothing. You think Cunha and Mbeumo are better players and don't trust Ferran. I think Ferran can keep up this level and even build on it. Gonna see the outcome. Maybe you're right and Torres is gonna go back to disappoint. Maybe Torres bags 30-35 goals and assists next season.
Maybe. I am not arrogant enough or egotistical enough to claim I am right in this matter or any other, football or any other subject. Ultimately it's a game of opinions and we all get some right and some wrong.

Maybe you will be right, and if you are, well done and fair play to Torres. He seems a decent guy and I want him to succeed. But I have seen this type of thing a lot where a player seemingly plays above himself for a while then reverts to type. Jesse Lingard had one or two of these brief purple patches and I caught flack for my previous comments on him, before he went back to his usual and I looked like I was right again.

My point isn't even about Ferran specifically. It's about how football fans live in the moment and change their views on players based on several good months or weeks of form. I said this on here long before I debated Torres. It's something that really, really annoys me about modern football fans with no attention span.

But I shouldn't have thrown you in that basket because usually you seem pretty rational. Just think you're getting carried away here, but I might be wrong.
 

Maradona37

Well-known member
Yeah, it's Flick. Too bad Flick couldn't make Fati look like a decent footballer.
That's a strawman. No coach improves every player. And Fati is an injured guy who I don't think could be fixed by God himself. So as you already know that is an example in bad faith.

I am not even a big Flick fan. Defensively he's awful but he gets teams attacking brilliantly and Ferran has benefitted from that for me.
 

jamrock

Senior Member
Yea the fati line is a straw man I have to agree lol.

Torres is talented and as much as I don't rate him and talk shit about him, he proved me wrong the last 6 months of the season and he has enough in him to do it again.

Just don't play him on a the wings, he's still awful there, but as a back up striker, in a system like flicks that creates so many chances, he can look good and be a asset to the team.

If he played else where or for another manager he won't look as good, but he plays here, so it doesn't matter.
 

Maradona37

Well-known member
Yea the fati line is a straw man I have to agree lol.

Torres is talented and as much as I don't rate him and talk shit about him, he proved me wrong the last 6 months of the season and he has enough in him to do it again.

Just don't play him on a the wings, he's still awful there, but as a back up striker, in a system like flicks that creates so many chances, he can look good and be a asset to the team.

If he played else where or for another manager he won't look as good, but he plays here, so it doesn't matter.
Yeah Fati was a futile attempt to try to prove me wrong, but it was obviously a bad argument.

Maybe I am being harsh on the lad. He probably could prove useful as a squad player as he has this season. I don't think he's terrible or anything, just 'decent' or 'nothing great but has his uses'

But people in here are saying he should go for 70m/50m or would be the best striker at a lot of other clubs. Claiming stuff like Madueke has gone for 55m, as if football works that way. Come on. I think they're getting carried away with his performances so far in 2025 and wearing Barca glasses. He could prove me wrong - I am not arrogant enough to say he couldn't - but he could just as easily revert to type.

Not every player who plays for Barca is a great player. And that's ok.

'If he played else where or for another manager he won't look as good, but he plays here, so it doesn't matter.'

Exactly my point on why he's doing well at Barca, but is a risk for others. And why for his sake he should stay at Barca, for now at least. You sum it up.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Others only sign risk players though. That's the reason likes of Tottenham and United finished 17th and 15th. You make it look like players that perform better at a lower level and pressure are gonna automatically adapt to a big club and big pressure scenario, but it's a maybe at best. At the same time, there's a maybe for Torres if he can mature as a player and continue his progress in the next season.
 

Maradona37

Well-known member
Villa paying for being a successful club out of London and not qualifying for the CL every year. Similar happened to Newcastle despite being owned by Sheikh Shack. League punishes you for trying move up the levels.

Better FFP than Spain for sure, but still not perfect, and protecting the status quo, or is it status qunts?
Yeah PSR and FFP in England has all been about protecting the three red clubs (three cunt clubs) who view themselves as deserving of ruling the game there indefinitely because the handouts they got were further back in history than the handouts others have had.

The irony is the very same financial restrictions that those clubs wanted to stop City and Newcastle spending (not that I like their human rights abusing owners) are now totally killing United after they made too many mistakes in the market. You love to see it. Karma.

To be fair Barca are obviously having many financial problems too, but at least you are still winning things and have lots of hope for the future and an incredible academy. United are just fucked.
 

Maradona37

Well-known member
Others only sign risk players though. That's the reason likes of Tottenham and United finished 17th and 15th. You make it look like players that perform better at a lower level and pressure are gonna automatically adapt to a big club and big pressure scenario, but it's a maybe at best. At the same time, there's a maybe for Torres if he can mature as a player and continue his progress in the next season.
I didn't say that - yes, lots of them players will fail too. Man United bought some punts I don't rate who failed, sometimes for massive money, eg Hojlund, Zirkzee, Ugarte. They got De Ligt and he's more under your banner - people would say he's a Dutch international with a good CV of good clubs - but he has been a disappointment too as I said he would be.

The trick is to get the maximum value and best players with best potential you can. And I think a good way to do that is to try to find gems ready to take the step up for cheaper at smaller clubs. Especially when money in football is going crazy. Liverpool got some bargains back in the day and it really gave them a leg up.

It works both ways. I am not saying never buy a superstar player. But in the case of Torres and Mbeumo/Cunha I think the latter two are better, despite playing for smaller clubs.

I am not saying it works this way ALL the time. As you illustrated, it can work both ways. It's not the line of reasoning I am dogmatic with, it's just that in this particular case, I think the less heralded, less experienced at the top level players have more room to explode than the player already at a top club does. But again, it likely won't happen at United. If Mbeumo for example went to Liverpool to replace Salah, he could have a very good impact there (obv not on Salah's level or near) because I reckon style wise he'd fit like a glove there. But that is not happening.

I agree with your post here.
 

draconifire

NTC with a Positive attitude
Before when we had Perisic linked with us, I was OK with selling Tuna if an offer came in around the ballpark of 50m.

Now I'm not sure if players like that are available.
Although selling him will surely enable us to pursue our future CF, either this year or next, a club with so much financial trouble every penny helps.

Until we find a suitable candidate, his selling is on HOLD.
 
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Titan98

Active member
I think for 50 million we should agree everytime. Torres is good and important but we should take the 50 million.
What can happen?
He has an even better season with us this season, his market value raises but contract expiring in 2027. we would have to renew on higher wages or he waits until contract ends.
Sell now to finance new striker next year
 

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