2 - Pau Cubarsí

khaled_a_d · May 12, 2025

Porque said:
We also play on the limit, which causes extreme focus and mental fatigue. Every mistake is a potential goalscoring chance conceded which can definitely be taxing over a long season.

It's the risk of the system. But Flick seems to be aware of it and know how to tweak it over pre-season. I personally think Cubarsi is going to come back much better next term.

The system is risky no doubt. It was always a trade off that is worth it. We knew that from October, and we were even warned before Flick joined.

But personal mistakes are personal mistakes, especially when you consider the past.

Last year we conceded same number of goals in 180 minutes vs PSG as we did vs Inter, thanks to stupid mistakes from defense. In the season before our defense got exposed against the likes of Manu, Bayern and Inter in Europe.

In that same season,when defense was supposed to be our strength, we conceded 9 goals in 450 minutes from RM, this year 7 goals in 390 minutes.

And yes, having a creator like Kroos helped RM (though they have better attackers now) while Xavi unhealthy obsession with Alonso was a problem, but we still had isseues in defense in different systems, with defensive mistakes.

And just to be clear, even the best defenders makes big mistakes, but with us it is consistent in the big moments.

The way I see it, I don't look to our CB rotation and see any of them that I would say he is a top 5 CB now even if he is playing in difference system.

ElMagodel304 · May 12, 2025

khaled_a_d said:
It doesn't work because of personal mistakes. Cubarsi and Inigo gifted 2 goals last night, only 2nd goal came from systematic "error".

Defensive errors cause goals in any system, and Barca always had an offensive minded team, we played with highline under the likes of Rijkaard, Pep and Lucho. Mascherano had a career here just because he was able to defend highline.

Different eras, but in 04/05 we literally played same defense under Rijkaard. Highline with offside trap. Puyol was better than anyone we have seen from our CB this season. Again, Different eras, and pretty unfair comparison, but the idea that no one can play it is totally off the mark.

It revived freakin Boateng career playing this style.

Second season of Flick in Bayern they faced PSG on two legs game. And Ney and Mbappe Destroyed them. Flick needs to improve and adapt himself tactically, specially vs Mbappe and Vinicius, you cant def that high winning 4-2 against Madrid its dumb.

khaled_a_d · May 12, 2025

ElMagodel304 said:
Second season of Flick in Bayern they faced PSG on two legs game. And Ney and Mbappe Destroyed them. Flick needs to improve and adapt himself tactically, specially vs Mbappe and Vinicius, you cant def that high winning 4-2 against Madrid its dumb.

Conceding 3 goals in 2 games against Neymar and Mbappe isn't being destroyed. PSG scored 3 goals from 4 attempts on target.

And again, I am not defending the system. Criticise it all you want.

I've a problem with deflection of the blame. The moment you point the weakness of our defenders and the immediate answer is "look at the system ".

I am sorry, but this is deflection.

You say you can't play highline with 4-2, ok.
But what about when we are behind? The Inigo situation happened uncountable numbers in Barca with different coaches when it was a draw ot we were losing.
And defenders knew they can't lose the ball in this position when they are the last defender.

The system argument is more related to the context, rather than the situation.

You can't be like this with 4-2 in classico, ir 3-2 in 93rd minutes in semifinals. That is true.

But the type of attacks, those aren't new situations that our CB were used to bail us out.

TheStig · May 12, 2025

I'm scared of the second season because of that. Bayern defense fell apart in Flick's second season also, we're already seeing sings that it is happening here too.

I like the high line but sometimes it goes into the extreme without need like in Milano and yesterday. Why would you play so high when you are leading the CL semifinal 3 minutes until the end?

Kubala · May 12, 2025

TheStig said:
I'm scared of the second season because of that. Bayern defense fell apart in Flick's second season also, we're already seeing sings that it is happening here too.

I like the high line but sometimes it goes into the extreme without need like in Milano and yesterday. Why would you play so high when you are leading the CL semifinal 3 minutes until the end?

Totally agree. Flick has performed miracles this season but that system doesn't feel sustainable. Teams will be more aware next season and realise that runs from deep kill us. If he persists with such a high line we need real pace at CB and a GK who's really quick off his line.

TheStig · May 12, 2025

True but we won't get them and Flick is completly non adaptable coach. This season it worked great but he doesn't adapt, it's always very high line, direct football and pressing. That's gonna be interesting if teams figured it out with our slow CBs and MATS back in goal.

Porque · May 12, 2025

khaled_a_d said:
The system is risky no doubt. It was always a trade off that is worth it. We knew that from October, and we were even warned before Flick joined.

But personal mistakes are personal mistakes, especially when you consider the past.

Last year we conceded same number of goals in 180 minutes vs PSG as we did vs Inter, thanks to stupid mistakes from defense. In the season before our defense got exposed against the likes of Manu, Bayern and Inter in Europe.

In that same season,when defense was supposed to be our strength, we conceded 9 goals in 450 minutes from RM, this year 7 goals in 390 minutes.

And yes, having a creator like Kroos helped RM (though they have better attackers now) while Xavi unhealthy obsession with Alonso was a problem, but we still had isseues in defense in different systems, with defensive mistakes.

And just to be clear, even the best defenders makes big mistakes, but with us it is consistent in the big moments.

The way I see it, I don't look to our CB rotation and see any of them that I would say he is a top 5 CB now even if he is playing in difference system.

Agreed.

What I am suggesting is that the added focus of playing on the limit can force our players into more unforced errors.

Second season should had have big improvements. The system faltered towards the end of the season. But I think it was mostly down to fatigue, both mental and physical.

Lets take the example of the midfield. The assumption was that Casado-Pedri was run into the ground, but Frenkie once fully fit should be able to maintain the level of the midfield. It took it's time, but that's what happened.

In the defence it was the same. After Christensen went down the assumption was that eventually Araujo and he would return to maintain the level of the defence. Which didn't happen as Araujo was woefully off form and Christensen returned way too late after aggregating his injury.

Next season, full fitness and a signing like Tah should help maintain the level of the defence immensely.

Of course it would be great if we could have got a world class defensive leader in place of Inigo like Van Dijk.

jamrock · May 12, 2025

khaled_a_d said:
The system is risky no doubt. It was always a trade off that is worth it. We knew that from October, and we were even warned before Flick joined.

But personal mistakes are personal mistakes, especially when you consider the past.

Last year we conceded same number of goals in 180 minutes vs PSG as we did vs Inter, thanks to stupid mistakes from defense. In the season before our defense got exposed against the likes of Manu, Bayern and Inter in Europe.

In that same season,when defense was supposed to be our strength, we conceded 9 goals in 450 minutes from RM, this year 7 goals in 390 minutes.

And yes, having a creator like Kroos helped RM (though they have better attackers now) while Xavi unhealthy obsession with Alonso was a problem, but we still had isseues in defense in different systems, with defensive mistakes.

And just to be clear, even the best defenders makes big mistakes, but with us it is consistent in the big moments.

The way I see it, I don't look to our CB rotation and see any of them that I would say he is a top 5 CB now even if he is playing in difference system.

Last year we conceded less goals against PSG than we didn't against Inter, all while playing about 60 minutes one man short.

Just wanted to correct that, unless I misunderstood

Raketa10 · May 12, 2025

He is only 18! He will carry our defense for years to come. However, we need someone faster and younger than Inigo next to him.

khaled_a_d · May 12, 2025

jamrock said:
Last year we conceded less goals against PSG than we didn't against Inter, all while playing about 60 minutes one man short.

Just wanted to correct that, unless I misunderstood

Same number of conceded goals in 180 minutes. While being one man short thanks to the limits and stupidity of our CB.

jamrock · May 12, 2025

khaled_a_d said:
Same number of conceded goals in 180 minutes. While being one man short thanks to the limits and stupidity of our CB.

How is conceded the same number of goals while playing a man short comparable to playing the full 180 with your entire team?

Wether Araujo was stupid for the red card or not.

Only thing that shows is how poorly we defended against inter, that we couldn't concede less with 11.

But you're cooking so I'll let you cook, I'm flicks words were music to my ears yesterday.

khaled_a_d · May 12, 2025

jamrock said:
How is conceded the same number of goals while playing a man short comparable to playing the full 180 with your entire team?

You have your unique unpopular opinion of using red card as an excuse for defense, which you are entitled to. But no one will bite that my mate.
Defense caused red card and conceding same goals is worse than conceding same number as full team, because at least in the later they allowed our attack to continue the fight.

jamrock · May 12, 2025

khaled_a_d said:
You have your unique unpopular opinion of using red card as an excuse for defense, which you are entitled to. But no one will bite that my mate.
Defense caused red card and conceding same goals is worse than conceding same number as full team, because at least in the later they allowed our attack to continue the fight.

No idea what you've been trying to get at with this one the last few days.

But like I said I'll let you cook, maybe it will land one day.

Porque · May 12, 2025

Only argument is that we should have been able to close up and not concede 4 in 50 minutes last season, instead of mentally fall to pieces led by the manager getting a red.

I think too, that in CL games since then that actions similar to Araujo's didn't result in a red card or even a free kick. So it was an Araujo brainfart for also harshly decided.

There was a game this year in the CL (it was us or PSG) where the foul wasn't given. I forgot which.

jamrock · May 12, 2025

Porque said:
Only argument is that we should have been able to close up and not concede 4 in 50 minutes last season, instead of mentally fall to pieces led by the manager getting a red.

I think too, that in CL games since then that actions similar to Araujo's didn't result in a red card or even a free kick.

There was a game this year in the CL (it was us or PSG) where the foul wasn't given. I forgot which.

PSG vs Liverpool
Konate.

Even bastoni did something similar vs us

The key is both is the defender didn't fall over as well, it made it look clumsy and a lot worse than it is.

It's tough not conceded against that PSG pace with 10 men especially with Cancelo in defense, it's like playing with 3 defenders 😂.

Also know what's a lot easier by orders of magnitude? Not conceding 1 with 3 minutes left and everyone on the field.

2 - Pau Cubarsí

khaled_a_d

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ElMagodel304

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khaled_a_d

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TheStig

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Kubala

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TheStig

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Porque

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jamrock

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Raketa10

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khaled_a_d

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jamrock

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jamrock

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Porque

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