CL Quarter Final: Barca - Atletico 0-2

Draconifire said:
The Inter loss was more attributed to fatigue.
No Balde & Kounde. Plus, our backline of Cuba - Inigo was overplayed the whole year. It was bound to show up during such a crucial game and point in the season.
That's the reason why I wanted us to get another CB, cuz sure as hell Araujo & Christensen weren't reliable. And it came true.

Even though Inigo might not be world-class, he was good enough, if we had a proper backup for him the whole year, we probably would have saved atleast 1 more goal in that tie.
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Inter loss was similar to AM loss. Same shite. Fuck-ups from subpar players first, and ultra-risky tactics by Flick second. The differences between Inter and AM is that AM is a superior team with superior players, and that this time we missed both De Jong and Raphinha. So, our attack and midfield were heavily diminished. Defense was just as bad.

Overplaying hurts players like Raphinha, De Jong, Yamal, Pedri, Kounde etc. For players like Cubarsi, Araujo, Martin, Balde etc., these are suffering from a combination of insufficient quality and low experience in these types of games.

With Raphinha at home vs AM this season. 3-1, 3-0. Without him, 0-2. Night and day. Next season, Flick has to rotate him and manage his minutes, not rushing for mid-season games, no nothing. No playing him vs 3rd division sides, stop this nonsense.

The minutes he should get in Copa del Rey for example should be in semis and potential final, and only if we draw Atletico or Madrid in the semis. That's if we want to do something in CL.
 
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Played well with 10 men, they ran a lot and gave it their all. Objectively one would have to be deluded to think this team can win the CL.

sure, we can score a few goals in the return leg, but you just know that any team playing against this Barca with mediocre defenders made worse by an insane high-line system can score easily too.
 
Loki said:
To be fair, last year that goes for all teams. This year, for most teams as well. They're on their peak right now, while we struggle with finances and injuries.
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Its a flawed argument.

„If we had gotten the 3 best teams ever in the group stage we would have lost group stage!“ Well no shit. Thats not how it works.

But if you(he) wants to believe Barcelona is not a top 4 team in the world and Real Madrid is better, go ahead. There‘s just no proof for it.
 
Our squad depth is inferior even to AM. Let's not kid ourselves.

Also, it doesn't matter if on paper, in ideal scenarios of no injuries and equal conditions, we are top 4 or not.

Such ideal conditions don't happen in real life. There will be injuries, suspensions, uneven schedule. Compare our situation to PSG in France who on top of having a piss easy league, also postpone their league matches. By comparison we have to play AM 3 times in 10 days with largely the same players. AM is out from La Liga title race, they can take it easy in the league, and focus on CL. The only team dealing with similar scenarios to us is Arsenal, albeit with a much superior squad.

The conditions aren't the same.
 
serghei said:
Inter loss was similar to AM loss. Same shite. Fuck-ups from subpar players first, and ultra-risky tactics by Flick second. The differences between Inter and AM is that AM is a superior team with superior players, and that this time we missed both De Jong and Raphinha. So, our attack and midfield were heavily diminished. Defense was just as bad.

Overplaying hurts players like Raphinha, De Jong, Yamal, Pedri, Kounde etc. For players like Cubarsi, Araujo, Martin, Balde etc., these are suffering from a combination of insufficient quality and low experience in these types of games.

With Raphinha at home vs AM this season. 3-1, 3-0. Without him, 0-2. Night and day. Next season, Flick has to rotate him and manage his minutes, not rushing for mid-season games, no nothing. No playing him vs 3rd division sides, stop this nonsense.

The minutes he should get in Copa del Rey for example should be in semis and potential final, and only if we draw Atletico or Madrid in the semis. That's if we want to do something in CL.
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How did Flick's risky tactics affect the outcome of game yasterday?

Atletico created 1 chance all game and that was a very preventable Sorloth shot

If you are talking about the red card instance, I really don't know. These things happen to every team 10 times a game
 
MonteCuler said:
How did Flick's risky tactics affect the outcome of game yasterday?

Atletico created 1 chance all game and that was a very preventable Sorloth shot

If you are talking about the red card instance, I really don't know. These things happen to every team 10 times a game
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High line with improper pressing is a football faux pas. One of the ways you can adapt to missing Raphinha is realize your pressing is not gonna be good enough to intimidate Atletico as much as you want. And if pressing is bad, high line is gonna be exploited for fun. Cubarsi red is carbon copy of Giuliano goal from 4 days prior. Also, Sorloth probably scored this goal for the 4th time against us or something.

Flick doesn't want to change, it's his style, I understand this. Problem is, he's getting exposed in CL. And not only by teams from tier A+, like PSG, Bayern, Arsenal. But also from the next level down, like Chelsea, AM.
 
serghei said:
High line with improper pressing is a football faux pas. One of the ways you can adapt to missing Raphinha is realize your pressing is not gonna be good enough to intimidate Atletico as much as you want. And if pressing is bad, high line is gonna be exploited for fun. Cubarsi red is carbon copy of Giuliano goal from 4 days prior. Also, Sorloth probably scored this goal for the 4th time against us or something.

Flick doesn't want to change, it's his style, I understand this. Problem is, he's getting exposed in CL. And not only by teams from tier A+, like PSG, Bayern, Arsenal. But also from the next level down, like Chelsea, AM.
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Pressing wasn't bad before the red card. Even after the red it was good. Which is exactly why Atletico didn't create shit. We also created some big chances by stealing the ball close to their goal
 
If the ref/var was playing it by the letter of the law for the red on cubarsi, then we should have had a penalty on the atletico hand ball.

Inconsistency is what pisses fans off the most.
 
Singularity said:
It's not over till it's over, Barca can still qualify for Semis.
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Absolutely. I'll even put a fiver or even a tenner on us qualifying for sure (beautiful value now) as a truly believe we can kill them, if we get the first (early) goal and Simeone gets even more spooked than he already will be. Plus, with Pubill and Hancko both out, their defense gets considerably weaker.
 
serghei said:
Atletico can't be beat by 2-3 goals at home. The tie is over. They beat us at home and on Metropolitano they are like 2 times better. While we usually are much stronger at home.
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Only the likes of Q$G and maybe Bayern could beat them like this on Metropolitano this season.
 
te amo barca said:
This team can definitely win with a 2 (penalties would be nerve-wrackingly fun) or 3-goal difference in Madrid.
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Absolutely

The first leg result is bad but it could have been so much worse. 3 goal advantage would already be very very hard to overcome

This way only if we can manage the situation at the back and be more efficient in final third, we will either go to ET or win in 90

I don't know if we will satisfy these criteria, though. Because Raphinha is out and his replacement has proven in first leg that we should not rely on him for efficiency

Also we will lack our best defender in second leg. But we can hope Joan will deliver something much better than that 1st leg performance
 
It’s always this time of year, in the knockout stages, when it feels like the stars align against us. Injuries to key players and unnecessary red cards have been a recurring story over the past few seasons.
This time, the red card felt harsh. I don’t blame Cuba , it was an unfortunate situation and I’m not even sure it was a foul.
The real problem though is that other than Rafinha, we don't have anyone that can finish the chances we create. In the end, that’s what will cost us qualification to the next round. We urgently need a top striker this summer.
 
serghei said:
Yes, unfortunately, Flick's style is very good for managers like Simeone. So open at the back that AM can just focus on defending since they know they can score 2-3 goals anyway with just a few attacks per game. Teams like AM who struggle so much to attack positionally, when you gift them the chance to be 1 vs 1 with just one or two passes so often, that's playing right into their hands.
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Actually true. Xavi won 5/5 games against Simeone conceding only 2 goals overall, mainly because at that time we used a more conservative approach with slower buildup and a rigid structure.

These lot struggle when they are forced to attack positionally, as you say, and we can force ball losses that way too.

The approach we have now, we are certainly capable of beating them 5-0 or 6-0 when things go right, the issue is that we aren't making them prove that they can break us down in defense, we are committing big numbers forward in a fluid style and allowing them to have 2v2 or 3v3 counters they haven't earned.

Against better attacking teams its more justified because the likes of PSG or Bayern are very happy to attack patiently and break you down, whilst their attacks are much more threatening. So there you need a fire fights fire approach. But here, we could absolutely do with a less risky approach, where our superior quality should win us the game. We don't need to take big risks to beat them and we can beat them with a more composed buildup approach.
 
Of course, adjusting the scheme for the 2nd leg is probably too late because we are already at a 2 goal deficit, but its something to keep in mind for the future.

The tactic should be risky when the game warrants it more. But facing a defensive opponent like this who waits for the opposing team to play, they give you the opportunity to take your time. Especially given its a CL knockout where a bad result can end your season unlike the league, we should undertake more risk management.

I also note that they scored 2 goals from 0.45 xG whilst we outplayed them for spells even with 10 men so the scoreline is a little unfair to us. One good free kick and one attack, 2 decent chances and 2 goals, sometimes that's how the cookie crumbles.

We are more than capable of overturning it regardless of tactical changes.
 
Its not mentality. Its really just law of averages.

Its just not good to meet a team youre better at but not by much so often in such short time. By rule of law not all will go your way. Youre not that much better that youll win every match. It just happens. Add a few fluky circumstances and it happens.
 
Return leg will need to be full flick ball.

But they also beat us 4-0. So they will have confidence.

Not a big criticism of flick, but I feel he's the only coach we've had of the good to decent ones that when we play atleti, I'm not 100% sure we will win.

Even when we win they are always in the game more often times than not.

Simeone has a good idea of how to counter flick ball.
 
jamrock said:
Return leg will need to be full flick ball.

But they also beat us 4-0. So they will have confidence.

Not a big criticism of flick, but I feel he's the only coach we've had of the good to decent ones that when we play atleti, I'm not 100% sure we will win.

Even when we win they are always in the game more often times than not.

Simeone has a good idea of how to counter flick ball.
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Honestly the only game where Simeone absolutely outcoached Flick was the CDR loss

The game they won on Montjuic was down to pure luck, as Simeone more or less admitted. This game on Camp Nou we were also better and Cubarsi won them the game
 
MonteCuler said:
Honestly the only game where Simeone absolutely outcoached Flick was the CDR loss

The game they won on Montjuic was down to pure luck, as Simeone more or less admitted. This game on Camp Nou we were also better and Cubarsi won them the game
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No not outclass, but the games are always close, with atleti giving us as good as they get from us.

It's very rarely a calm win. which is kind of always been the case in a game vs them before.
 
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