Barca transfers & rumours

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Loki said:
Comparing Alvarez' 8 LL goals with Cholo's and Flick's system is like comparing a Ferrari driven by Verstappen and by grandma. It makes no sense. Obviously Alvarez will score 20-30 goals at least with Flick ball, getting fed by our midfield.
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That can't be the reason, though, because strikers under Simeone have historically reached great numbers.

Sorloth has been there over the same period and got 13 LL goals this season and 20 in the last.

Alvarez historically doesn't have a particularly high scoring rate compared to other elite strikers. That could change, but its not an Atletico thing.
 
Once you start paying 150m+ for a player, one must also take into consideration how he performs under inferior systems, for there will come a day when individual talent will be asked to fill in the gaps of an inferior system here at Barca too. Who knows how much longer Flick will remain in charge, and when that day comes, ie a Xavi 2.0 or Koeman 2.0 take over, one cannot merely blame inferior output on the system. The output of a 120m-150m player must remain consistent, for that is what will be expected of such an expensive player.
 
How is Julian not consistent though? He after all scored a free kick golazo on Camp Nou which basically put Atletico in charge of the whole thing, and since that moment they were always in charge in the tie.

He fits the definition of a world class player, because he shows up in big games in impactful ways. Last season in CL? Another crazy golazo in CL vs Madrid on Bernabeu. Also from nothing. These goals are tremendously impactful in big ties.

Everybody cites volume of goals vs mediocre sides, but the real mark of a class player is what he does under pressure. Julian is closer to Kvara. Kvara also has low volume goals over the entire season, but when the pressure gets high, he tends to deliver. Imo so is Alvarez. Same ilk. He's one of the guys who you look at to solve things when you need them most. Who cares if he scores 10 goals less vs minnows than a more classic 9. That's not what it is about.

There's 100% legitimate reasons for why we made him a top 2 target. Beyond that is not under our control. But we chose him for good reasons, this is without doubt for me.
 
serghei said:
How is Julian not consistent though? He after all scored a free kick golazo on Camp Nou from a free kick which basically put Atletico in charge of the whole thing, and since that moment they were always in charge in the tie.

He fits the definition of a world class player, because he shows up in big games in impactful ways. Last season in CL? Another crazy golazo in CL vs Madrid on Bernabeu.

Everybody cites volume of goals vs mediocre sides, but the real mark of a class player is what he does under pressure.
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Do world class strikers score 8 goals in a full league season though?

We keep saying that he always shows up in the big games, but we also saw him at the WC, he was ghosting in those big games.

It is true that he has a great CL record. But the other world class strikers like Kane or Haaland etc have that and much more in their resume. And slightly lower names like Lautaro.

People are advocating for Alvarez mainly on the basis that there are no realistic options at the moment, and he is the best striker on the market (not in my view), but after all, his transfer is highly restrictive also.

It's too late now, but I would have renewed or kept Ferran and given all force to signing Kane or Haaland next summer.
 
ajnotkeith said:
Do world class strikers score 8 goals in a full league season though?

We keep saying that he always shows up in the big games, but we also saw him at the WC, he was ghosting in those big games.

It is true that he has a great CL record. But the other world class strikers like Kane or Haaland etc have that and much more in their resume. And slightly lower names like Lautaro.

People are advocating for Alvarez mainly on the basis that there are no realistic options at the moment, and he is the best striker on the market (not in my view), but after all, his transfer is highly restrictive also.

It's too late now, but I would have renewed or kept Ferran and given all force to signing Kane or Haaland next summer.
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Kvara has 12 in Ligue 1 in two seasons. Some world class players just come alive in big moments. Zidane was like that also. His output in lesser games and goal threat and everything was very low.
 
ajnotkeith said:
Sorloth has been there over the same period and got 13 LL goals this season and 20 in the last.
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They have different roles under Simeone. Sorloth is a pure finisher and has 53 to 38 shots on goal in comparison to Julian.
Alvarez leads in assists 5:0, progressive carries 49 to 12 :lol: , is miles ahead in passing statistics. He runs without the ball in 15 minutes more than Sorloth in the entire game to put it in exaggerated terms.

Also in expected threat is Alvarez miles ahead. Julian is by far the better striker. Give them the same roles and he'll always outscore the likes of Sorloth. But Julian strengths lie not only in scoring, but in his legs as well and that's also a big reason why Flick wants him.

 
Kvara is a winger playing in a league no one gives af about. psg don’t need his goals. Zidane was an am. Strikers worth 120m don’t score 8 goals in la liga. Simple. And his wc was nothing to scream about either. Only Barca are stupid enough to go this hard for Alvarez.
 
We don't need Alvarez to hit 40 in the league either. If he can come up with assists, if others around him contribute with goals as well due to his playmaking, who gives a shite if the goals come mainly from the 9 or come through a more even distribution?
 
And this excuse that strikers don’t do well at Atletico is pure disingenuous bullshit. Many strikers have had their best performances there. Even washed Suarez and Villa helped them win La Liga. Alvarez is the exception that has struggled.
 
You don't understand what we're paying for. You think we're paying for a poacher, but we're in fact paying for an all around 9. Those always score fewer goals than poachers.

Take a look at Firmino, Dembele types that won CLs as main 9. Their goalscoring records are low in comparison to Haaland, Kane and other big target men.

And btw, that 8 goals is misleading, he'll easily hit 25 per season here.

I approve the switch from a poacher type who is on the lazier side on pressing and off the ball work to a more hardworking aggressive 9 that is gonna run for the team and won't see goals as his only valuable contribution to the side's attack.

I don't care who scores the goals.
 
redios10 said:
And this excuse that strikers don’t do well at Atletico is pure disingenuous bullshit. Many strikers have had their best performances there. Even washed Suarez and Villa helped them win La Liga. Alvarez is the exception that has struggled.
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It's not an excuse. 100% true if you watch Atletico. Their midfield was stiff as shite, almost zero creativity. Griezmann and Alvarez were the de facto creators on top of scorers.
 
It’s not that people don’t understand Alvarez’s profile but they doubt he’s good enough a player to justify the investment in terms of effort and money.

Historically, strikers of various profiles have performed exceptionally well under Simeone and Alvarez’s reputation is still largely due to his 2018 campaign.

They’re looking for someone who can play both on and off the ball, and Alvarez fits the bill. I think he’s a decent target, but he’s not a world beater, so it can’t be either him or no one.
 
No one thinks we’re paying for a poacher. World Class strikers are supposed to score goals while still doing everything else. Scoring goals is still the most important part. Claiming only poachers can score is again disingenuous. And Alvarez’s playing making, dribbling, and back to goal ability is not good enough to absolve him from doing his primary job, scoring goals.
 
serghei said:
You don't understand what we're paying for. You think we're paying for a poacher, but we're in fact paying for an all around 9. Those always score fewer goals than poachers.

Take a look at Firmino, Dembele types that won CLs as main 9. Their goalscoring records are low in comparison to Haaland, Kane and other big target men.

And btw, that 8 goals is misleading, he'll easily hit 25 per season here.

I approve the switch from a poacher type who is on the lazier side on pressing and off the ball work to a more hardworking aggressive 9 that is gonna run for the team and won't see goals as his only valuable contribution to the side's attack.

I don't care who scores the goals.
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This is where it becomes doubtful for me, because I don't even see him as a 9 at all, let alone having world-class all around play.

I actually think his main strength is in his shooting ability. His work with his back to goal, aerial ability, holdup play and such could greatly improve. He does not provide a reference point for the team at all. He is more of a 10 or second striker.

We aren't talking about Benzema here. Alvarez has excellent workrate and technical ability, but he doesn't have those centre-forward qualities you are describing.

And by the way, Kane that you mentioned is probably the best in the world for his all-around game as well as his goals. His technical ability and centre-forward work is outstanding, and far better than Alvarez.
 
Hear me out Lads.

If we dont get Alvarez. Its probably Rapha/Gordon #9.

How about Leao if we can get him for around 40m??
And a cheap backup ST from Laliga.
 
Draconifire said:
Hear me out Lads.

If we dont get Alvarez. Its probably Rapha/Gordon #9.

How about Leao if we can get him for around 40m??
And a cheap backup ST from Laliga.
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AC may even loan him out the way things are.

Flick commented about Rashford that he was a great player but lacked discipline. Going by that I doubt he would welcome Leao, and on top of that handing him a starting spot.
 
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Draconifire said:
Hear me out Lads.

If we dont get Alvarez. Its probably Rapha/Gordon #9.

How about Leao if we can get him for around 40m??
And a cheap backup ST from Laliga.
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Leao might be even worse than Rashford in terms of pressing. Plus Milan want 50M for him, so for 40M isn't gonna be enough. Anyway, I think Flick will want a good presser above all else...that's non-negotiable for him, otherwise he'll just be content with switching between Gordon, Raphinha, Yamal and Adeyemi in the false nine role.

Even if Milan somehow agree to a loan, I just feel like we'd be doing the same thing as last year with Rashford...having someone temporary, who likely doesn't have a future at the club beyond the loan, so not really improving in that regard.
 
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