21 - Frenkie de Jong

JamDav1982 said:
Frenkie was ok last night..far better than Gravenberch but still not great.

Koemans tactics of some bizzare deep sitting 523 that just had midfield patrolling on front of defence was horrendous.

They deserved to go out.

Two evenly matched teams and unlucky to meet Morocco so early... but their set up was awful and to protect Van Dijk it appeared.

Could be worse.

Could be getting knocked out earlier like Valverde who coudnt beat Cape Verde or Saudi Arabia. or Kimmich did by Paragauy etc.
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Yea let's compare him to midfielders who have climbed mountains he's never dreamt of so far in his career, but don't worry he's about to be 30 still has time on his side.

It really couldn't be worse his team made the euros SF without supposedly their best player/midfield and got knocked out the first time of asking with him back on the global/Continental stage. They got massively better with him.

Should have just left it at the first bit, comparing him to valverde and Kimmich, lol let him win a CL first ffs.
 
Same midfielders that are said to be amongst best in world now..

Yet Valverde cant beat Cape Verde or Saudi Arabia and Kimmich goes out to Paraguay.

They had worse world cups by far.

Netherlands at Euros finished 3rd in their group only beating Poland. Then beat Romania and Turkey.

Thats.. two teams not even good enough to make this World Cup and one who lost and finished behind Australia this World Cup as went out in group.

They never met a team remotely as good as Morocco or even close that they beat.

Just as in 2022 they went out to eventual champions Argentina on penalties. It is small margins.

Not quite the flex you think.

On Euros.. Spain won it without Gavi..and without Pedri v Germany for most part, France and England.
 
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"Not my fault". And... Again with the victim mentality.

Frenkie de Jong: “I feel empty inside. We played bad. We played with a numerical disadvantage in midfield. It was really difficult with only two midfielders. I’m disappointed, but that was the coach’s plan and we did our best to follow it. They had more possession of the ball.”
 
He is 100% correct there.

How Koeman couldnt see it is the worst part.

It was a 523 giving up midfield to sit deep and punt up park early to three attacking players.
 
JamDav1982 said:
He is 100% correct there.

How Koeman couldnt see it is the worst part.

It was a 523 giving up midfield to sit deep and punt up park early to three attacking players.
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Correct or not correct on tactics. If they passed through on penalty lottery, he would have kept his mouth shut.
The act itself of badmouthing your manager in public is sign of a piece of shit character.
 
A shit attitude is going against what coach wants and not trying to apply it.

That didnt happen.

Commenting on what went wrong in games and how team struggled when lose is common place. Particularly in big defeats.

Koeman should be out of a job for how he set that team up.

Koeman lost points v Japan thinking Netherlands had too much power and height so could defend box deep.. fairly sure VVD lost his man in that 2-2 goal also.

Repeated the mistake v Morocco.

They need to go cap in hand to Pep and see if he fancies a small nod to Cruyff.
 
serghei said:
Right. And that's how you get the best out of him. You surround him with players who get the job done in positions with more traffic, more athletic players, better shooter, with better end product. And that's what Barcelona did under Flick, albeit with limited funds that slow things down.

Spain struggle at the moment because some of those players are way off form compared to the Euros, and some declined, got injured repeatedly and don't have the same impact. And Pedri is not great enough to lead the team, he is not a complete midfielder in that sense like some greats of the past.
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A d which player is. Iniesta did nothing for Spain after 2012. The moment Xavi declined it was over for Spain's midfield.

No player can be great without a great team. Surround Pedri with great players, and he will lead the midfield, just like he does at Barca, but he can't do it alone, just like Vitinha can't do it alone, night and day are his performances for Portugal and for QSG who have the best fullbacks and most fluid attack in the world.
 
Keoman definitely fucked up, horrible tactics.
But a player who had 0 standout games this tournament should probably keep his mouth shut and say WE fucked up which was the truth.

The Dutch had four players who played well and can be proud of this tournament. None of them are VVD or De Jong.
 
Frenkie played well in group and was ok last night.

He has been far far better than likes of Gravenberch who was poor in 3 of the 4 games and terrible again last night.

Gakpo probably their best player overall.

Dumfries good going forward.

Van Hecke was good.

They would have been far better served with no Van Dijk and a higher line with Van Hecke/VDV at cb allowing a midfield of Frenkie/Gravenberch and Reijnders to get into the middle of park and allow freedom to try and keep ball.

Likes of Brobbey was a complete lost cause last night as couldnt hold up ball and no midfield runners supporting him.

He needs game to be higher up park.. players to support him and to get into box to attack ball. None of which was happening.
 
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Feels a bit too early to see Frenkie out of tournament, hopefully this wont demotivate him for the new season.

He is 29 now, he will definitely play next world cup but think then its over, cant imagine him playing with 37
 
Van Der Vaart is always to the extremes and goes from saying Frenkie is by far the best Dutch player to one of the worst.

The best players always get it when intl teams lose.

Tale as old as time.

For example Gravenberch was quite clearly far far worse and made 18 passes and did next to nothing defensively but not same is expected.

They are right in saying it was bizarre that Netherlands tried to play with two midfielders who they barely used on ball or allowed to press.

All said in early hours when watching the game.

Decent bit from that same article..he was one of the most progressive ,midfielders and also one of those with best defensive stats at World Cup prior to the last game.

Then Koeman decides to take game away from midfield and put on 5 defenders. Top stuff.

Reijnders just had his best game previously also.. didnt see a minute. Koeman had the mother of all brainfarts.

On the other hand, Volkstrand, a leading media outlet in the Netherlands, published statistics from Stats Perform just after the Netherlands' first three World Cup matches against Japan, Sweden and Tunisia in which it highlighted the offensive nature of De Jong's game compared to some of his illustrious colleagues in the tournament. pointing out that the blaugrana "ensures that the ball reaches the offensive third more often than average". De Jong had made 38 forward passes until then, which converted into minutes of play, only the Portuguese Vitinha and the Senegalese Idrissa Gueye did it more frequently. He also accounted for 40 forward starts with the ball, a facet that according to this statistic only the Spaniard Rodri and Vitinha surpassed.

Voetbal International also calculated that the Netherlands scores more than half a goal per game with De Jong than without De Jong, comparing the matches that, during the last few years, he was with those that he was not due to injury absences.
 
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People should be talking about his horrendous injury record as well, which seems to get glossed over.

Frenk has been unavailable for 43 league games in the last 3 seasons, that's a whopping 38 percent of games.

Going to be 30 soon, contract shortening all the while, and unlike with attackers, there are numerous great prospects we could replace him with like Bouaddi.

I think Real are clowns but even they were smart enough to pimp Casemiro around the EPL in similar circumstances. Arsenal are looking to upgrade on Zubi, Chelshit may need an Enzo replacement, Utd needed a Casemiro one before they got Ederson, City are about to spend 130m on a central midfielder.

But you need a competent Sporting Department to see these kinds of moves, and I doubt the thought of selling Frenk has ever entered their minds, this summer.
 
Don Money Laporta Estruch said:
People should be talking about his horrendous injury record as well, which seems to get glossed over.

Frenk has been unavailable for 43 league games in the last 3 seasons, that's a whopping 38 percent of games.

Going to be 30 soon, contract shortening all the while, and unlike with attackers, there are numerous great prospects we could replace him with like Bouaddi.

I think Real are clowns but even they were smart enough to pimp Casemiro around the EPL in similar circumstances. Arsenal are looking to upgrade on Zubi, Chelshit may need an Enzo replacement, Utd needed a Casemiro one before they got Ederson, City are about to spend 130m on a central midfielder.

But you need a competent Sporting Department to see these kinds of moves, and I doubt the thought of selling Frenk has ever entered their minds, this summer.
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I hear you but Frenkie isn't moving he's cement his feet into the soil of Barcelona and even when the club was trying to sell him only man utd expressed any serious interest. Bayern has soft interest.

I don't think Frenkie is high on many top clubs list as a midfielder to come in and solve problems that might exist.

He's a good player but he's not changing anyone fortunes and one would assume they are also aware of his injury history as well.
 
So easy to dunk on him now without considering the fact how retarded you have to be to play with 5 defenders leaving your midfield outnumbered in today’s football.

Before yesterday everyone was saying how he has been one of the standouts for the national team this tournament. I also remember from last season how soft and lost our midfield seemed without him or Pedri, actually Pedri himself was far from himself everytime when Frenkie was out.
 
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