18 - Gerard Martín
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
This man cost us 1 goal and a red card over the two legs.
He fucked the line up for the red, if he was in line with Garcia & Kounde. We would be good.
And we all know what happened in the first leg.
Basically him & Garcia cost us a goal & red over the two legs.
But can't blame players too much for fucking up the line, no defender should be asked to play the offside trap every second of a 90+ minute game, that's a bridge too far.
He fucked the line up for the red, if he was in line with Garcia & Kounde. We would be good.
And we all know what happened in the first leg.
Basically him & Garcia cost us a goal & red over the two legs.
But can't blame players too much for fucking up the line, no defender should be asked to play the offside trap every second of a 90+ minute game, that's a bridge too far.
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MonteCuler
Well-known member
I really don't know what do you guys want from this guy.
He will never, ever be a top CB. If you have ever thought otherwise, I seriously advise you to stop watching football
He had some good performances in LL vs shit opposition but on top level he is brutally exposed
He is working hard and pushing waaay above his level, which is why I will always respect him. It is not his fault the club can't get a better CB and sell him to a club that may tolerate his massive defensive flaws for decent ball playing
And no, he is not good enough for backup CB. Backup CBs should be able to step up at any moment and perform at the level required. Even in a CL final if needed. Martin will never be able to perform at Barça level
He will never, ever be a top CB. If you have ever thought otherwise, I seriously advise you to stop watching football
He had some good performances in LL vs shit opposition but on top level he is brutally exposed
He is working hard and pushing waaay above his level, which is why I will always respect him. It is not his fault the club can't get a better CB and sell him to a club that may tolerate his massive defensive flaws for decent ball playing
And no, he is not good enough for backup CB. Backup CBs should be able to step up at any moment and perform at the level required. Even in a CL final if needed. Martin will never be able to perform at Barça level
The issue is not that he will or won't be a top CB. The big problem is that he is our best CB, or at least close to being the best. Comfortably a starter and he's even a makeshift CB, converted in need from a fullback into a central defender.
Situation in this squad is crystal clear. We have a strong core, 2 of the best 4-5 players were missing in the tie, but the squad is filled with some bums and non-factor players like Rashford, Christensen, Araujo, grandpa Lewandowski (sorry, but he moves like his age).
It was instantly visible the team was done when Olmo, Fermin, and Torres got super-tired.
Fucking clear the dead wood already.
Situation in this squad is crystal clear. We have a strong core, 2 of the best 4-5 players were missing in the tie, but the squad is filled with some bums and non-factor players like Rashford, Christensen, Araujo, grandpa Lewandowski (sorry, but he moves like his age).
It was instantly visible the team was done when Olmo, Fermin, and Torres got super-tired.
Fucking clear the dead wood already.
JohnN
Member
amd when yamal got tired. and why is that. because we couldn't make some changes against espanol. we sabotaged our own game.
MonteCuler
Well-known member
He is nowhere near our best CB. This is clear double standards. You people say Cubarsi is good with the ball but is bad at defending (which is false), but you will praise this guy. Who is positionally braindead and gets bullied by every striker who's not a fucking twink.
He is constant starter in CB mate. That makes him top 2. He is even a problem for Flick if injured.
Exactly. We dont need high line to win UCL.
MonteCuler
Well-known member
We do
A high line or a brand new frontline (-Yamal)
Super offensive football makes braindead idiots score. Which is what we need
Do PSG, Bayern play such a high line as ours where defenders are required to play offside trap for 90 minutes?
MonteCuler
Well-known member
Bayern have 4-5 world class forwards. We have 2
Also, yeah, Bayern play high line. But they also have 2 proven and estabilished defenders. We have two kids who, in normal situation, would likely still be developing at the B team and sometimes getting first team chances.
Not this high. They also dont insist to play offside traps for 90 minutes.
There's issues with the goal we conceded on tactical level imo. Not big ones, but things to be improved for the future.
Griezmann goes in the center. If you are Garcia, the moment Griezmann escaped from you and will, 100% receive the ball with absolute certainty, if you studied Atletico even a bit, you'll know he'll play it for a wide runner first time, like it happened many times before.
Knowing this, Garcia should not even attempt to go press Griezmann, the benefits of doing that have vanished the moment he cleared you to receive the ball. Both him and Martin should already prioritize the runner. Both (or at the very least one) should already be running back. But they don't. Before Griezmann makes the pass, they are still moving forward, or at most stationary. And I'm pretty sure Kounde is too, in line. This forward movement at the wrong time is what generates huge problems for us. And they are fixable.
We just have to know when it's time to press, and spot when there's a clear breach, and you must instead not block the action from happening, because you can't anymore, but temper it and isolate it in the least damaging way. We are clueless about this part of the game in general. Not just today.
The goal doesn't happen if, when seeing Griezmann get space to play a pass, you cover the runner first. At least one of Garcia or Martin. If you track the runner and run back, you also get access to Griezmann if he stays on the ball. And you also cut the pass that can really hurt you there. Which is only one type of pass, the one that was made.
Griezmann goes in the center. If you are Garcia, the moment Griezmann escaped from you and will, 100% receive the ball with absolute certainty, if you studied Atletico even a bit, you'll know he'll play it for a wide runner first time, like it happened many times before.
Knowing this, Garcia should not even attempt to go press Griezmann, the benefits of doing that have vanished the moment he cleared you to receive the ball. Both him and Martin should already prioritize the runner. Both (or at the very least one) should already be running back. But they don't. Before Griezmann makes the pass, they are still moving forward, or at most stationary. And I'm pretty sure Kounde is too, in line. This forward movement at the wrong time is what generates huge problems for us. And they are fixable.
We just have to know when it's time to press, and spot when there's a clear breach, and you must instead not block the action from happening, because you can't anymore, but temper it and isolate it in the least damaging way. We are clueless about this part of the game in general. Not just today.
The goal doesn't happen if, when seeing Griezmann get space to play a pass, you cover the runner first. At least one of Garcia or Martin. If you track the runner and run back, you also get access to Griezmann if he stays on the ball. And you also cut the pass that can really hurt you there. Which is only one type of pass, the one that was made.
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That high line gets punished by higher level teams with better players who can beat it.
Strikers are on average much faster then defenders so once its beaten they have pretty much no chance to catch up.
And even if they do catch up it often leds to fouls and red cards like today.
Exactly like I've been saying mistakes with this system leads to 1v1.
From there it's very rarely a good outcome.
With other systems defenders have time & space to correct there mistakes
Well put, but there is not only the high line. Often there's no line at all anymore, just chaos pressing randomly, abandoning any kind of defensive structure.
The problem that makes everything worse, is that our backline is not only very high in terms of where it sits on the pitch, but it also actively involved in pressing opponents. Our defenders can get into some very silly positions, like ending up in the opponent's half when the opponent is in control of the ball and has the ability to make a pass.
The only one who is positioned well is Kounde.
Garcia should be on the line. But no, let's go and press Griezmann just like that. He goes to press, then midway he realizes, "oops, I won't get there in time", I need to go back. By that time, Llorente is home free with nobody in sight. Btw, the advantage of Lookman is he knows beforehand what is supposed to happen, and starts his run earlier than Kounde. Why shouldn't he, the ball is made for Llorente and he gets in on the cross, using the leverage he gained on Kounde. The attacker always has the edge in runs, because he has the ball and knows what the plan is before the defenders. You compensate this by way of positioning, spotting runs before it is too late to block them. Having the opponent in front of you. So you can react in time to what he does.
Just stupid, stupid, stupid.
And JamDav tells me it's on Kounde, because he didn't catch Lookman, from behind, who purposefully stays offside to get to the cross that will follow soon before Kounde, yeah, right. That's the big flaw here.
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Birdy
Member
Both Bayern and PSG play high line.
There isn't a single top team in Europe that doesn't play a high line. Unless you consider the mess of VARdrid a top team...
Yes, we play offside traps, they don't. That makes a difference.
But the problem is that both of these press like mad men on the ball. Even their star players.
We don't. Apart from Raphina Fermin , all our other attackers are cold n hot in that regard. We have to press better upfront and once this happens the line stops being a problem.
Look at the clip of the goal.
The initial pressing is not as aggressive as it should be.
Then Pedri dozes off and stops following the runner.