14 - Karim Adeyemi

TomCat said:
Wdym?
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Klopp didn't call him up simply because he joined us, he called up almost every player.

22 players for the first two matches, then another 22 for the next two, and he will decide who stays and who doesn't.
 
GG1989 said:
Klopp didn't call him up simply because he joined us, he called up almost every player.

22 players for the first two matches, then another 22 for the next two, and he will decide who stays and who doesn't.
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Yes, and out of those 44 players, he chose to start a player who wasn't even called up for the last WC. This... right after joining Barca.
 
So what is funny about that? They changed the coach, it's normal he prefers other players than Nagelsmann. It's quite possible Adeyemi would start for Klopp even if he stayed in BVB, you can't claim it's only due to his transfer.
 
Loki said:
Opinion in Germany is, he looks the same as he did in BVB. Bad decision making and finish.
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You probably follow this more than many on here but came across an interesting review of match from German POV as well as the different criticisms in German football overall. But I have to say as much as I enjoyed Xavi's debut with the Netherlands was Klopp's approach - even recognizing he has injury issues to deal with as well as culture/mentality switch to make, I thought Germany's debut under Klopp was great, despite the work that still needs to be done - looks very promising and maybe most importantly I liked the team spirit from Germany, on and off the pitch under Klopp
 
thestig said:
So what is funny about that? They changed the coach, it's normal he prefers other players than Nagelsmann. It's quite possible Adeyemi would start for Klopp even if he stayed in BVB, you can't claim it's only due to his transfer.
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Because oftentimes humans fail to see the value in something or someone unless it's recognized elsewhere.

Happened with Braithwaite too. He transferred to Barcelona and suddenly became a starter/regular player in the Danish national team, despite being as mediocre as it gets.
 
But Klopp wasn't their coach when they didn't choose Adeyemi for WC. Totally different situation.
 
thestig said:
But Klopp wasn't their coach when they didn't choose Adeyemi for WC. Totally different situation.
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Yes, but I am not referring to what could have happened if Nagelsmann had remained their coach, because it didn't, but rather what actually happened once Adeyemi transferred to Barcelona. Ie, he was chosen ahead of all other competition in the German NT. Just like that.

One way of putting it is that at Dortmund, he was a very good car sitting parked in a dusty garage in need of a tuneup and a good driver (manager). Then... a new driver came along, fixed it up, and said: let's give it a try, I see potential here and know how to make it perform again, win a race.

And bam! His ability and skillset was suddenly appreciated again. Correlation with causation despite all factors not remaining identical.
 
TomCat said:
Yes, and out of those 44 players, he chose to start a player who wasn't even called up for the last WC. This... right after joining Barca.
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Did you even see the XI? You make it seem like Adeyemi stepped into their full blown gala XI out of nowhere.
 
Andresito said:
Did you even see the XI? You make it seem like Adeyemi stepped into their full blown gala XI out of nowhere.
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Germany has a Gala 11? The WC squad did so poorly, in fact, that it got Nagelsmann fired, so perhaps it's time to remove the Gala from the 11? :lol:

Also plenty of very good players yesterday.
 
TomCat said:
Germany has a Gala 11? The WC squad did so poorly, in fact, that it got Nagelsmann fired, so perhaps it's time to remove the Gala from the 11? :lol:

Also plenty of very good players yesterday.
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He is just testing players.
Debutant at RB, Schade also not in WC squad. Mats also in XI. Nothing indicates Adeyemi got some free passage because he signed for Barca.
 
Klopp is just testing players in these 4 matches. Germany needs a hard reset after the failures of past tournaments. Far too early to tell who will make it and who not. He also balanced both squads, so they both could play football, so it doesn't say anything about player's chances playing the first 2 games or the last 2.

That said Adeyemi has certainly good chances due to his decent start at Barca, provided he keeps improving.
 
Andresito said:
He is just testing players.
Debutant at RB, Schade also not in WC squad. Mats also in XI. Nothing indicates Adeyemi got some free passage because he signed for Barca.
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Mats being in the squad strikes me as more of an IOY after having been a loyal #2 for so long. I don't think he's testing Mats.

And it's not just that he's a Barcelona player, obviously. It's more in line with a player who was previously mismanaged/misunderstood and thus underperformed relative to skillset, but is now working with a team that is able to "maybe" get the best out of him at one of the best clubs itw. Hence why he's being tested now. The Barca connection strengthens the curiosity, the pull.
 
TomCat said:
Mats being in the squad strikes me as more of an IOY after having been a loyal #2 for so long. I don't think he's testing Mats.

And it's not just that he's a Barcelona player, obviously. It's more in line with a player who was previously mismanaged/misunderstood and thus underperformed relative to skillset, but is now working with a team that is able to "maybe" get the best out of him at one of the best clubs itw. Hence why he's being tested now. The Barca connection strengthens the curiosity, the pull.
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Far too much mental gymnastics. Klopp called up 44 players, Adeyemi was rightfully one of them and would most likely have been there even if he stayed at BvB.
 
Andresito said:
Far too much mental gymnastics. Klopp called up 44 players, Adeyemi was rightfully one of them and would most likely have been there even if he stayed at BvB.
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Im not saying this about Klopp, per se, for he's a very good manager, but there are enough NT managers who will shoehorn players into the squad because of the club they represent instead of how they complement and strengthen the team. And even very intelligent and capable managers aren't immune to it.

Why do I bring this up? Merely to point out that people buy Rolex en masse not just because of its quality but because of the perception it holds. Playing at Barcelona is the crème de la crème, the highlight of one's career, and it raises the perception of a player immensely. Peaks curiosity and interest amongst NT managers!

Perform well at Barca, as has been the case for Adeyemi so far, and I wouldn't be the least surprised if/when he's chosen ahead of players with similar output but who play at an inferior club.
 
TomCat said:
Im not saying this about Klopp, per se, for he's a very good manager, but there are enough NT managers who will shoehorn players into the squad because of the club they represent instead of how they complement and strengthen the team. And even very intelligent and capable managers aren't immune to it.

Why do I bring this up? Merely to point out that people buy Rolex en masse not just because of its quality but because of the perception it holds. Playing at Barcelona is the crème de la crème, the highlight of one's career, and it raises the perception of a player immensely. Peaks curiosity and interest amongst NT managers!

Perform well at Barca, as has been the case for Adeyemi so far, and I wouldn't be the least surprised if/when he's chosen ahead of players with similar output but who play at an inferior club.
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How is that surprising lol. Performing well for Barca =/= performing well for Stuttgart.

Coaches will always want the squad that has most chances to follow his plans and win. Roony was left out of WC squad despite playing for Barca, Tuchel also said he based his WC squad on the balance of players rather than what team they play for. I don't know what point you are trying to make here. Adeyemi starting yesterday in that particular squad with mostly newbies on the bench after showing good form for Barca wasn't surprising or scandalous at all.
 
Andresito said:
How is that surprising lol. Performing well for Barca =/= performing well for Stuttgart.

Coaches will always want the squad that has most chances to follow his plans and win. Roony was left out of WC squad despite playing for Barca, Tuchel also said he based his WC squad on the balance of players rather than what team they play for. I don't know what point you are trying to make here. Adeyemi starting yesterday in that particular squad with mostly newbies on the bench after showing good form for Barca wasn't surprising or scandalous at all.
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Not scandalous or controversial, but it's a stretch to say that he would have started for the German national team yesterday if he had remained at Dortmund. When he was at Dortmund, he was ignored by Nagelsmann (WC squad). Same player, same skillset, same ability; the only difference is that now the best team in the world is bumping up his status, and he's being tested in the German starting 11. I don't see that as coincidental.

We will of course never know, for Germany has a new manager, so it's not a 1:1 comparison, but that's how I see it. Perception matters.

Edit. Not only being tested for he's playing well; he's being tested for he's playing well at Barca.
 
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