Hatem Ben Arfa

[mitkoa7x]

Trolling is a art.

 

[Messi+Eto]

Trolling is a art.

I guess you have mastered it.

 

[Tembbi]

Newcastle was good because Ba was unstoppable in the early season (notice that Ben Arfa was away). When Ba faced problems, Newcastle's run was horrible. Finally when Cisse came,
the Magpies started rocking again. I watched roughly half of their games last season and Ben Arfa was by no means the carrying player of Newcastle. He was good, but the truth is
Newcastle should thank Demba for their success last year. He scored when it was impossible to score.

Actually, Newcastle did not lose a single game before Ben Arfa played his first match as a starter last season.
Is it a coincidence? Well, Newcastle won their first match in which Ben Arfa started 1 February 2012. Really? Yep, February. He started in plenty of matches before that, they just couldn't
win a single one of those. In fact, Ben Arfa holds the worst win-draw-lose record of Newcastle last season (matches played as a starter).
Am I blaming him for those losses? Nope... I'm just saying statistics do not really favour him, but who cares about statistics I guess.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

Newcastle was good because Ba was unstoppable in the early season (notice that Ben Arfa was away). When Ba faced problems, Newcastle's run was horrible. Finally when Cisse came,
the Magpies started rocking again. I watched roughly half of their games last season and Ben Arfa was by no means the carrying player of Newcastle. He was good, but the truth is
Newcastle should thank Demba for their success last year. He scored when it was impossible to score.

Actually, Newcastle did not lose a single game before Ben Arfa played his first match as a starter last season.
Is it a coincidence? Well, Newcastle won their first match in which Ben Arfa started 1 February 2012. Really? Yep, February. He started in plenty of matches before that, they just couldn't
win a single one of those. In fact, Ben Arfa holds the worst win-draw-lose record of Newcastle last season (matches played as a starter).
Am I blaming him for those losses? Nope... I'm just saying statistics do not really favour him, but who cares about statistics I guess.

Ben Arfa was on the bench for the majority of the first half of the season. If you watched enough Newcastle United matches you would know that. Don't trust statistics too much, especially if you are reading the wrong ones.

Newcastle United's 11 game unbeaten run ending against Manchester City had nothing to do with Hatem Ben Arfa coming back into the starting line up to make his FIRST START after 12 MONTHS out with a broken leg in two places. Newcastle United's unbeaten run ending had everything to Ryan Taylor messing up and costing Newcastle United 2 goals all by himself and also the fact that it was a MANCHESTER CITY that 2 weeks earlier had beaten Man Utd at Old Trafford 1-6. If you watched Newcastle United as much as you claim you would have known this.

And in the game against Man City where we lost our unbeaten run Hatem Ben Arfa had a decent game against a Man City, he put what should have been a goal, on a silver platter for Demba Ba with a fantastic reverse pass but Demba couldn't finish it and Ben Arfa also hit the post in that game. Ryan Taylor cost us that game though with 2 stupid mistakes leading to goals for Man City.

So with your stats you point out that when Newcastle first won a match with Hatem Ben Arfa staring it was 1st February 2012, fair enough, but then you go on to claim he started plenty of matches before that and just couldn't win a single one of those. Just to clear things up those 'plenty of matches' you mentioned = 4 matches and 3 of those 4 matches were against Manchester City, Manchester United and Chelsea so yeah............ The last of those 4 matches you mention was a 5-2 loss to Fulham, a game which Newcastle United absolutely dominated in the 1st half like you would not believe but failed to score a 2nd goal, a game in which Hatem Ben Arfa made an assist and scored a goal. Newcastle fell apart in the 2nd half because they thought we don't have to work hard after dominating Fulham that first half and that their mere presence on the pitch would be enough to win.

Indeed who cares about statistics when people like you pick and choose them without telling the full story behind them because they conveniently make a player look bad to suit your argument.

And again I point out the man had spent 12 Months out with a broken leg only making his first start on the 19th of November 2012 and you wonder why it was only towards the end of the season that he started showing his best consistently.

Yes Demba Ba played a huge role with 16 goals as did Papiss Cisse with his 13 goals. But so did Hatem Ben Arfa towards the end of the season with 5 goals and 7 assists.

 

[mitkoa7x]

Guys, its not trolling to poke HBA for response, he loves writing these walls of text, you give him pleasure.

 

[Tembbi]

Indeed who cares about statistics when people like you pick and choose them without telling the full story behind them because they conveniently make a player look bad to suit your argument.

I'm not actually trying to prove my point by using stats. I judge players by watching them, I don't care a bit about statistics. I even said the guy is alright, at least for Newcastle that is.
I just wanted to get you back on ground after praising him ten times more than the guy deserves. Worst win-draw-lose of Newcastle. mm'm

He sure became a lot better in the end of the season. Cisse seems to play quite well with Ben Arfa.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

I'm not actually trying to prove my point by using stats. I judge players by watching them, I don't care a bit about statistics. I even said the guy is alright, at least for Newcastle that is.
I just wanted to get you back on ground after praising him ten times more than the guy deserves. Worst win-draw-lose of Newcastle. mm'm

He sure became a lot better in the end of the season. Cisse seems to play quite well with Ben Arfa.

nothing to say about the rest of the post then? like your 'plenty of matches' being Man City (hit post, gave what should have been assist and Ryan Taylor gifting Man City 2 goals), Chelsea, Man Utd (won a penalty), Fulham (goal & assist) or the circumstances surrounding his fitness or the fact that it was only November that he made his first start in 12 months after a broken leg in to places and you complain that it took 4 games before Newcastle won a game with him starting.

you clearly are are using stats to suit your argument, albeit incorrectly since the stats you use ignores facts that tell the whole story, and if you judge players by watching them and watched as many Newcastle matches as you claimed, you wouldn't have made so many mistakes in doing so. You have been caught in a lie.

you bring up worst win-draw-loss record for starts. He only started 16 games out of a possible 38 games in the Premier League, 6 of them against the Top 4. Take away those 6 games against the Top 4 it leaves you with 10 games he started with 7 wins and 3 losses. why not include that information in your 'worst win-draw-loss record' claims? It's clear why you don't, because it does not suit your argument.

and AGAIN he was out with broken leg in 2 places for 12 months only starting his first game in late November so he would have been nowhere near full fitness until the end of the season which was the case and showed with better and better performances in the final stretch of the season.

I've replied to all your points, how about you do the same, or is acknowledging that you are wrong and being unfair and biased with your statistics too difficult for you?

 

[Tembbi]

I'm not replying to all of your points due to the fact writing walls of text and arguing does not particularly interest me.
Statistics aren't unfair or biased. They are called statistics for a reason. The way I listed statistics and chose only certain stats is biased.

But I already told you I did it on purpose. It wasn't my intention to make a solid argument by using those stats, but simply to pull you, Newcastle and Ben Arfa back on the ground.
Although I have no idea how or where I'm wrong. I said Ben Arfa wasn't a carrying factor in Newcastle last season. That is my opinion. You think differently even though you said
yourself he could not really contribute before halfway of season. He hasn't done anything to convince me or anyone else besides you on these forums he is a world class player.

I'm happy to leave the discussion here as I did not really expect you to turn it to a horribly boring dialogue, which does not even interest me. Besides, I believe you have made
yourself clear that Ben Arfa and Newcastle are really better than anyone else in the world think. Fair enough, so be it.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

OK I'll condense it into number points for your to reply to so that you stop conveniently ignoring them and not replying to them.



1.You claim Newcastle losing their unbeaten run was down to HBA coming back into the team, you are WRONG. Newcastle's 11 game unbeaten run ended against Man City (beat ManUtd 2 weeks earlier 1-6), a game Ryan Taylor gave away 2 goals costing Newcastle their unbeaten run.

2.This was HBA's 1st start in 12 months after a broken leg, he hit the post and put Demba Ba in 1 on 1 with the GK

3.The 'plenty of games' you claim HBA started before Newcastle won was = 4 matches

4. 3 of those 4 matches were against Manchester City, Manchester United (won Penalty) & Chelsea, the 4th(Fulham) he scored a goal & had an assist.

5. you claim he has the worst W-D-L record while conveniently not mentioning that he only started 16 games out of a possible 38 games in the Premier League. 6 of those games were against the Top 4. Take them away his record is 7 wins and 3 draws.

6. Given your claims you clearly did not watch Newcastle matches as much as you have claimed. That is also where you are wrong & caught in a lie.

7. HBA was responsible for 12 goals in the final stretch of the season & just so happened to be playing regularly in Newcastle's winning streak of 6 games. He was clearly a carrying factor.



Basically your whole original argument is riddled with fallacies & biased statistics to suit your opinion. After I've called you out on how all of them are utter bull, you now try save face by saying you didn't intend for them to be used as a solid argument.

I'm fine with you having an opinion that HBA is not as good as I claim. the problem I have is when you come out with utter bull for stats to suit your argument, bull that makes it clear you didn't watch Newcastle as much as you claimed.

 

[Tembbi]

1.You claim Newcastle losing their unbeaten run was down to HBA coming back into the team, you are WRONG. Newcastle's 11 game unbeaten run ended against Man City (beat ManUtd 2 weeks earlier 1-6), a game Ryan Taylor gave away 2 goals costing Newcastle their unbeaten run.

Nope, never said it was his fault. "Newcastle did not lose a single game before Ben Arfa played his first match as a starter last season."

2.This was HBA's 1st start in 12 months after a broken leg, he hit the post and put Demba Ba in 1 on 1 with the GK

Ok

3.The 'plenty of games' you claim HBA started before Newcastle won was = 4 matches

True

4. 3 of those 4 matches were against Manchester City, Manchester United (won Penalty) & Chelsea, the 4th(Fulham) he scored a goal & had an assist.

So all of sudden you're not a big club anymore or could even beat big clubs? Oh and scoring a goal isn't so fancy in a 5-2 loss you know?

5. you claim he has the worst W-D-L record while conveniently not mentioning that he only started 16 games out of a possible 38 games in the Premier League. 6 of those games were against the Top 4. Take them away his record is 7 wins and 3 draws.

Still not supposed to beat big clubs? The other people have to play the big clubs as well you know. Besides, it's just a statistic, you don't exclude some games bro.

6. Given your claims you clearly did not watch Newcastle matches as much as you have claimed. That is also where you are wrong & caught in a lie.

I would say I watched roughly 16-20 of their matches last season. I skipped most of the crap matches though. So I wouldn't know how good he was against Wigan or so.

7. HBA was responsible for 12 goals in the final stretch of the season & just so happened to be playing regularly in Newcastle's winning streak of 6 games. He was clearly a carrying factor.

I don't know how you can call someone who started in 16 matches a carrying factor.

_____________

Are you happy now? I answered to all of your question-like phrases. I guess we're cool now.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

1.You claim Newcastle losing their unbeaten run was down to HBA coming back into the team, you are WRONG. Newcastle's 11 game unbeaten run ended against Man City (beat ManUtd 2 weeks earlier 1-6), a game Ryan Taylor gave away 2 goals costing Newcastle their unbeaten run.

Nope, never said it was his fault. "Newcastle did not lose a single game before Ben Arfa played his first match as a starter last season."

you clearly clearly implied that it was his fault rhetorically asking is "is it a coincidence?" and then going on to produce your stat of it was only until February that Newcastle won a game with him starting. So yes YOU DID say it was his fault.

4. 3 of those 4 matches were against Manchester City, Manchester United (won Penalty) & Chelsea, the 4th(Fulham) he scored a goal & had an assist.

So all of sudden you're not a big club anymore or could even beat big clubs? Oh and scoring a goal isn't so fancy in a 5-2 loss you know?

Newcastle are big club. I never said different. My point is how often do teams outside the Top 4 beat the top 4 teams. If you are going to deny playing teams of such a caliber had no effect on your stat of how long it took for Newcastle to win with him starting, then you really aren't very bright. As for the 5-2 loss to Fulham. If you read anything I wrote, I explained it and if you had watched the game you would know that Newcastle absolutely dominated the first half but failed to score a 2nd goal and it is only due to hubris after dominating that 1st half that the Newcastle players thought they didn't have to try or work in the 2nd half which lead to conceding 5 goals in 45mins. HBA scored 1 goal and assisted the other goal in this match, HE DID HIS JOB as an attacking midfielder.

5. you claim he has the worst W-D-L record while conveniently not mentioning that he only started 16 games out of a possible 38 games in the Premier League. 6 of those games were against the Top 4. Take them away his record is 7 wins and 3 draws.

Still not supposed to beat big clubs? The other people have to play the big clubs as well you know. Besides, it's just a statistic, you don't exclude some games bro.

Again, where have I said Newcastle are not supposed to beat big clubs. Clubs outside the Top 4 are not expected to beat Top 4 clubs, simple as that. Your statistic of the worst W-D-L clearly does not take this into account, especially for a player that did not even start half of the 38 games in a Premier League season. 16 games and 6 of them against the top 4 teams in the league and you don't think it is biased to produce that W-D-L stat I won't exclude games if you tell the whole story, but you didn't did you. That is why I excluded them. If you had watched Newcastle as much as you claim you would know the whole story. And again he hasn't even started half the number of game the rest of his teammates have that you compare him to for this W-D-L stat you produce. That's why it is total bull for you to even bring it up to try and prove HBA is not as good as I think.

6. Given your claims you clearly did not watch Newcastle matches as much as you have claimed. That is also where you are wrong & caught in a lie.

I would say I watched roughly 16-20 of their matches last season. I skipped most of the crap matches though. So I wouldn't know how good he was against Wigan or so.

You are clearly lying. You linking the his reintroduction to the team with Newcastle's unbeaten streak ending is all the proof I needed of that because if you had even watched Man City vs Newcastle you would know he played a good game and had nothing to do with why Newcastle lost. Unless I'm wrong here and you are going to claim you didn't watch a crap match like Man City vs Newcastle and you linking HBA to being the reason the unbeaten streak ended was based on nothing more than you looking for statistics to suit your argument. Same goes with the Fulham. As for the Wigan loss, lets put it into perspective shall we, Wigan had just beaten Man Utd and Arsenal back to back and Newcastle had just won 6 games in a row and thought all they had to do was step onto the pitch and they would win. and also your 'plenty of matches' 3 of them Man City, Chelsea and Arsenal, were they also crap matches you didn't watch because that would explain a lot about your stat of how long it took Newcastle to win with him starting.

7. HBA was responsible for 12 goals in the final stretch of the season & just so happened to be playing regularly in Newcastle's winning streak of 6 games. He was clearly a carrying factor.

I don't know how you can call someone who started in 16 matches a carrying factor.

I'll tell you how, he played very well and was highly influential in our 6 game winning streak and good form towards the end of the season.

 

[Tembbi]

As I already stated earlier, the discussion isn't going anywhere so let's just leave it here.
The way I chose certain statistics was biased. Statistics aren't biased. You don't exclude some games from statistics.
I think Newcastle is a nice team and I look up to them but they aren't the caliber of what you claim. (At least I don't consider them that good.)
In my opinion, Ben Arfa wasn't a carrying factor for Newcastle last season, considering he only started in 16 matches, and had zero impact on their earlier good run,
he only contributed in the end season's good run, where yes, he played very well, especially with Cisse. Briefly, a player who won 7 matches as a starter cannot be
a carrying factor. But hey, that's just my opinion. It is completely irrelevant how little matches he played. If Messi had won 7 games last season, even if he started
only in 8, I would not give him any credit for Barca's success.

Clearly Newcastle is your team and Ben Arfa is your man, and you would say anything to make them look as good as possible. My only intention ever was to tell you
they're not THAT good until proven otherwise. So, I guess we're cool to leave the discussion here and let their actions during the upcoming season speak for themselves.

I did not expect it to turn into a horribly boring debate/dialogue, and it wasn't really my intention to offend you. So, if you want to go on about it, feel free, but it'll be a
monologue from now on. Thanks.

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

I was just looking for acknowledgement that you are wrong for clearly trying to pin blame on HBA for the unbeaten run ending. it was clearly not his fault and you would have known that had you watched Newcastle as much as you claim. The same goes for the 'plenty of matches'(ManUtd, Man City, Arsenal) he started before Newcastle's first win, but you obviously didn't watch any of those either because you didn't watch the 'crap games'.

anyway I'll leave it at that.

 

[Tembbi]

I was just looking for acknowledgement that you are wrong for clearly trying to pin blame on HBA for the unbeaten run ending.

In my eyes, it's almost impossible for one player to cause a team to lose a match. It's a team game after all, which I've played and coached all my life.
I was just being an ass and knew you would jump into the conclusion that I'm blaming Ben Arfa for their loss (which I still never said). I chose those words on purpose you know.

Kind of just to kick you in the groin and say "Wake up!"

 

[Hatem Ben Arfa]

sounds like the text book definition of trolling to be honest.

If you think he's not as good as I think, just say so. I will read and acknowledge your opinion. There is no need to troll.