Greatest club team of the 21st century

[bismp]

Hey guys

so I compiled a list of the best club teams of the the 21st century. All teams on the list needed some kind of European AND domestic success to be included. Furthermore, similar versions of the same team (Eg. 2008/09 and 20101/11 Barca) were omitted, in order to reward consistency. This means that the ranking does not consider single season success, rather than success over a 3 year period.

So, a total of 16 teams were included, the ranking was based on level of European and domestic success, level of competition, consistency and overall legacy:

16) Chelsea 2009/10 - 2011/12
15) Bayern Munich 1998/99 - 2000/01
14) Inter Milan 2007/08 - 2009/10
13) Bayern Munich 2019/20 - 2021/22
12) PSG 2023/24 - 2024/25
11) Liverpool 2017/18 - 2019/20
10) Barcelona 2004/05 - 2006/07
9) Real Madrid 2021/22 - 2023/24
8) AC Milan 2002/03 - 2004/05
7) Bayern Munich 2011/12 - 2013/14
6) Barcelona 2014/15 - 2016/17
5) Real Madrid 1999/00 - 2001/02
4) Manchester United 2006/07 - 2008/09
3) Manchester City 2020/21 - 2022/23
2) Real Madrid 2015/16 - 2017/18
1) Barcelona 2008/09 - 2010/11

 

[Maradona37]

Good list - I'd personally put Barca under Enrique a bit higher and maybe move them around with United of 07-09. I feel the Bayern treble season was sensational too, though they didn't sustain that (relatively speaking).

Overall though it is a good list and well thought out, and I salute the effort.

 

[bismp]

Good list - I'd personally put Barca under Enrique a bit higher and maybe move them around with United of 07-09. I feel the Bayern treble season was sensational too, though they didn't sustain that (relatively speaking).

Overall though it is a good list and well thought out, and I salute the effort.

Thanks man

Thing with both those team is, they lacked consistency. If we are ranking single seasons, then Barca's 2014/15 and Bayern's 2012/13 rank almost to the top of the list.

But Barca kinda failed in the UCL in 2015/16 and 2016/17.
While Bayern, and this may be easy to forget, actually went trophyless in 2011/12.

 

[Maradona37]

Thanks man

Thing with both those team is, they lacked consistency. If we are ranking single seasons, then Barca's 2014/15 and Bayern's 2012/13 rank almost to the top of the list.

But Barca kinda failed in the UCL in 2015/16 and 2016/17.
While Bayern, and this may be easy to forget, actually went trophyless in 2011/12.

Aye I agree with all that and was in my mind when considering it - that really they both had one sensational season but either side was worse (relatively speaking).

In the three season spells, as you are ranking by, they probably do deserve to be rated lower than United, who won three titles in that spell and made two CL Finals. I think the treble seasons for Barca and Bayern were higher than any level that United reached, but United sustained a (slightly lower) level for longer, so i see your reasoning.

And you're welcome, I always enjoy reading your posts.

 

[FC B]

Pretty bad list.

Bayern's sextuple team behind Madrid's 2016-2018 when they won 3 CLs in a row with massive help from the refs for three consecutive years? Are you kidding me?

 

[Maradona37]

Pretty bad list.

Bayern's sextuple team behind Madrid's 2016-2018 when they won 3 CLs in a row with massive help from the refs for three consecutive years? Are you kidding me?

I agree that Bayern season was better than any of those Real seasons. I would much rather watch them and their style of play. They were more impressive than any season for the Real three in a row team (I'd argue 2014 was Real's most deserved of the four in Ronaldo's time there). And that real had a lot of help from the refs and only won the league once in that spell I believe.

However, we can only go by achievements. I think the Bayern team played much better football, but as @bismp states, he is going by a three year spell rather than one season. Bayern weren't as good the seasons each side of that season.

As he said, it it was for one season, that team and Barca's Enrique treble team would be near the top.

But of course it's a game of opinions too.

Edit, just realised you mean the 2020 Bayern team, not 2013 (I think). I rate their 2013 version much higher.

 

[Maradona37]

@bismp

Seeing as I am quite familiar with these teams as I follow the PL a lot, and, It could be an anti-Madrid bias, but I would also be tempted to put Man City in second. True, they didn't win the CL as much, but they won all three domestic leagues (and in 2024 too solidifying that status) and had a very strong competition from Liverpool some seasons which they had to resist. In the final season of that run they won the treble. They also signed Haaland and changed the dynamic and style of their play (for the worse in my opinion). A negative could be their first PL title in that run was in empty stadiums due to COVID.

I'd also say that maybe Liverpool of 2018-2020 could be higher than 11th. For a three year spell they were excellent. True, they didn't win as much, but they were up against a supreme Man City team that included the Centurion team of 2018, and they actually beat that team on their way to the CL Final. They also won the CL themselves in 2019 and won the title in 2020 (yes COVID but they were miles ahead before the league shut down that March).

I feel that City and Liverpool went neck and neck a lot, so one being 3rd and the other 11th (although different eras of the teams, Liverpool pre COVID and City post COVID) is maybe slightly harsh.

Overall, as I said, it's a very good list. A lot of just splitting hairs, but I feel maybe Liverpool (and I don't like them) could be a little higher. There will always be slight nitpicks with these things though.

Thoughts?

 

[bismp]

Pretty bad list.

Bayern's sextuple team behind Madrid's 2016-2018 when they won 3 CLs in a row with massive help from the refs for three consecutive years? Are you kidding me?

We can only comment on on-pitch results and real-life titles, no what-ifs. Whether we like it or not, no team other that Real went close to threepeating. The only thing preventing them getting the #1 position was a relatively underwhelming domestic performance.

Also, excluding the obvious help from the refs from time to time (let's not pretend that Barca did not get some help in the Pep era), those 2016/17 and 2017/18 roads to the final were pretty hard, definitely among the most impressive ever along with Barcelona 2014/15 for example.

Btw, it is already obvious, but I do not rate that sextuple Bayern team that high:
1) they won at a time when most European giants were having a down year, w/o any real opposition. Furthermore, winning without crowds and real stakes always puts a light asterisk to their UCL title (like the 2020 Lakers in the NBA Bubble)
2) Most importantly, after winning the 2020 UCL and the sextuple, they went missing the next years, losing to 2nd place PSG in 2020/21 and then putting on a historic upset vs. Vilarreal in 2021/22.
3)Final point, their domestic competition was obviously subpar. Obviously they cannot be severely penalized; you can only beat the opposition that is available. But if they played in the Premier League or even La Liga, they would probably not win 3/3

 

[Maradona37]

We can only comment on on-pitch results and real-life titles, no what-ifs. Whether we like it or not, no team other that Real went close to threepeating. The only thing preventing them getting the #1 position was a relatively underwhelming domestic performance.

Also, excluding the obvious help from the refs from time to time (let's not pretend that Barca did not get some help in the Pep era), those 2016/17 and 2017/18 roads to the final were pretty hard, definitely among the most impressive ever along with Barcelona 2014/15 for example.

Btw, it is already obvious, but I do not rate that sextuple Bayern team that high:
1) they won at a time when most European giants were having a down year, w/o any real opposition. Furthermore, winning without crowds and real stakes always puts a light asterisk to their UCL title (like the 2020 Lakers in the NBA Bubble)
2) Most importantly, after winning the 2020 UCL and the sextuple, they went missing the next years, losing to 2nd place PSG in 2020/21 and then putting on a historic upset vs. Vilarreal in 2021/22.
3)Final point, their domestic competition was obviously subpar. Obviously they cannot be severely penalized; you can only beat the opposition that is available. But if they played in the Premier League or even La Liga, they would probably not win 3/3

Good response.

I'd say Madrid's argument is much more about what they won, rather than how they played and did it. The what over the how.

 

[bismp]

@bismp

Seeing as I am quite familiar with these teams as I follow the PL a lot, and, It could be an anti-Madrid bias, but I would also be tempted to put Man City in second. True, they didn't win the CL as much, but they won all three domestic leagues (and in 2024 too solidifying that status) and had a very strong competition from Liverpool some seasons which they had to resist. In the final season of that run they won the treble. They also signed Haaland and changed the dynamic and style of their play (for the worse in my opinion). A negative could be their first PL title in that run was in empty stadiums due to COVID.

I'd also say that maybe Liverpool of 2018-2020 could be higher than 11th. For a three year spell they were excellent. True, they didn't win as much, but they were up against a supreme Man City team that included the Centurion team of 2018, and they actually beat that team on their way to the CL Final. They also won the CL themselves in 2019 and won the title in 2020 (yes COVID but they were miles ahead before the league shut down that March).

I feel that City and Liverpool went neck and neck a lot, so one being 3rd and the other 11th is maybe slightly harsh.

Overall, as I said, it's a very good list. A lot of just splitting hairs, but I feel maybe Liverpool (and I don't like them) could be a little higher. There will always be slight nitpicks with these things though.

Thoughts?

Agreed that the inclusion of Haaland changed their style for the worse, although it may have coincided with the aging of their star-players.

Obviously the margin between these teams is small, we can argue all day about the achievements of each time (which I would gladly do ), but I think that even during this era, M.City was relatively subpar in Europe: losing the final against one of the weakest title winners in 2020/21, then getting KO'd by Real Madrid in 2021/22, then getting KO'd again by Real Madrid in 2023/24. It is a little bit too much losing for the second place IMO. I would even put Man. United 2007-2009 above, I think that margin is even smaller.

Yes Liverpool 2018-2020 could be ranked quite higher, but again we can only comment on real history: 1 PL in 3 years. They did go neck-to-neck, I agree, but that would be a "Manchester City 2017/18 - 2019/20" team strictly speaking in a more detailed list, which would obviously would not go as high as #2 and probably lower than that Liverpool team.

Happy to debate it though!

 

[Maradona37]

Agreed that the inclusion of Haaland changed their style for the worse, although it may have coincided with the aging of their star-players.

Obviously the margin between these teams is small, we can argue all day about the achievements of each time (which I would gladly do ), but I think that even during this era, M.City was relatively subpar in Europe: losing the final against one of the weakest title winners in 2020/21, then getting KO'd by Real Madrid in 2021/22, then getting KO'd again by Real Madrid in 2023/24. It is a little bit too much losing for the second place IMO. I would even put Man. United 2007-2009 above, I think that margin is even smaller.

Yes Liverpool 2018-2020 could be ranked quite higher, but again we can only comment on real history: 1 PL in 3 years. They did go neck-to-neck, I agree, but that would be a "Manchester City 2017/18 - 2019/20" team strictly speaking in a more detailed list, which would obviously would not go as high as #2 and probably lower than that Liverpool team.

Happy to debate it though!

True, good point on the ageing of City's star players in those years. Especially the loss of David Silva from the team really impacted their playmaking style. He ran that team for a long time, in my opinion. I am a very big fan of his.

Yeah I figured that would be your line of argument and it's a fair one i.e. City lost a lot in CL 2018-2020, which lessens them, and by extension Liverpool.

It was a weird time as City were actually better domestically, and Liverpool in the CL. But that also makes sense as Liverpool have an affinity with European football, and were more likely to get up for a cup game, whereas City were better across an entire reason with consistency.

You have started a very insightful thread anyway, and encouraged discussion. Brilliant work there.

 

[FC B]

We can only comment on on-pitch results and real-life titles, no what-ifs. Whether we like it or not, no team other that Real went close to threepeating. The only thing preventing them getting the #1 position was a relatively underwhelming domestic performance.

Also, excluding the obvious help from the refs from time to time (let's not pretend that Barca did not get some help in the Pep era), those 2016/17 and 2017/18 roads to the final were pretty hard, definitely among the most impressive ever along with Barcelona 2014/15 for example.

Btw, it is already obvious, but I do not rate that sextuple Bayern team that high:
1) they won at a time when most European giants were having a down year, w/o any real opposition. Furthermore, winning without crowds and real stakes always puts a light asterisk to their UCL title (like the 2020 Lakers in the NBA Bubble)
2) Most importantly, after winning the 2020 UCL and the sextuple, they went missing the next years, losing to 2nd place PSG in 2020/21 and then putting on a historic upset vs. Vilarreal in 2021/22.
3)Final point, their domestic competition was obviously subpar. Obviously they cannot be severely penalized; you can only beat the opposition that is available. But if they played in the Premier League or even La Liga, they would probably not win 3/3

Disagree.

I mean Barca 2008-2011 was a much superior team than any Madrid team, including 2016-2018 one.

Still, by some factors like refereeing. bad luck, individual errors or opponents making the match of their live Barca didn't manage to win 3 CL 2009-2011 as it should while Madrid 2016-2018 even if they where vastly inferior to that Barca team still mananged to hold grab of 3 CLs consecutively with the exact factors that prevented Barca do it, like refereeings, luck and some invididual brilliance/opponents collapsing.

In football just like in life, it's not guaranteed the winner is the best, it's usually just the winner not also the best.

Moreover, Madrid won but lacked true consistency, style and greatness, they just won. For instance, to me, Madrid 2013-2014 looks stronger than Madrid 2016-2018.

 

[bismp]

True, good point on the ageing of City's star players in those years. Especially the loss of David Silva from the team really impacted their playmaking style. He ran that team for a long time, in my opinion. I am a very big fan of his.

Yeah I figured that would be your line of argument and it's a fair one i.e. City lost a lot in CL 2018-2020, which lessens them, and by extension Liverpool.

It was a weird time as City were actually better domestically, and Liverpool in the CL. But that also makes sense as Liverpool have an affinity with European football, and were more likely to get up for a cup game, whereas City were better across an entire reason with consistency.

You have started a very insightful thread anyway, and encouraged discussion. Brilliant work there.

Good points, exactly.

Also, regarding that Liverpool: are they really better than Ronaldinho's Barcelona, Carlo's early 2000s Milan or even the second spell of Carlo's Real ? Difficult question...

 

[Maradona37]

Disagree.

I mean Barca 2008-2011 was a much superior team than any Madrid team, including 2016-2018 one.

Still, by some factors like refereeing. bad luck, individual errors or opponents making the match of their live Barca didn't manage to win 3 CL 2009-2011 as it should while Madrid 2016-2018 even if they where vastly inferior to that Barca team still mananged to hold grab of 3 CLs consecutively with the exact factors that prevented Barca do it, like refereeings, luck and some invididual brilliance/opponents collapsing.

In football just like in life, it's not guaranteed the winner is the best, it's usually just the winner not also the best who wins in life nor in football.

I agree Pep's Barca were a much better team than the Real three in a row team. They played far better football and to me that is the greatest team I have ever seen (club or international).

However, what I will say is that bismp seems to be leaning quite strongly on achievements and accolades in his ranking. If we start talking about which teams played the more dominant, impressive football, Madrid would fall down the list in my opinion. But it's difficult to ignore three CLs in a row regardless of how they won it with officials or hanging on in games.

Thoughts @bismp ?

 

[Maradona37]

Good points, exactly.

Also, regarding that Liverpool: are they really better than Ronaldinho's Barcelona, Carlo's early 2000s Milan or even the second spell of Carlo's Real ? Difficult question...

Yeah true, I don't think they are.

The team that stood out to me as one they could leapfrog is the 2022-2024 Real team. I know they won more titles and two CLs, but at the same time Barca in general weren't as strong as before in those years. Even the season Xavi won the league was a bit of a defensive thing and holding on at times, or so I am led to believe.

But then, they beat teams like Man City on the way to them (admittedly in incredible fashion) so that could then be an argument against the City team I am talking up.

Like you say, you can make arguments in all sorts of directions for and against teams. The list is subjective, which is what makes it a great discussion.

I would say though that I feel everyone should find Pep's Barca the best team in their lifetime. I have watched football since the 80s and NEVER seen such domination of football matches.