MonteCuler
Well-known member
What do you mean can't cope?
It's 30 min. Flamengo is very dangerous. Bayern scored 2 goals capitalizing on their nerves in first 10 mins
Until the end anything can happen
Yep. Now 2-1
Club World Cup
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
It's 30 min. Flamengo is very dangerous. Bayern scored 2 goals capitalizing on their nerves in first 10 mins
Until the end anything can happen
Yep. Now 2-1
MonteCuler
Well-known member
Total football. Game of the tournament so far
Birdy
Senior Member
Watch this compilation and tell me which moves his current version could do against the same defenders.
I think only the free-kicks, the pens, and the tap-ins
Birdy
Senior Member
Conceded 3 already.
Their defense can't hold...
It's a pity, they are well-drilled team
MonteCuler
Well-known member
Yeah but I don't think this is over, 1 goal and suddenly it becomes dramatic
Bayern is pressing them really well and they are obviously not used to it
soul24rage
Senior Member
You haven't answered my question in terms of specifics. Judging by this comp, there's not that much difference and current Messi wouldn't look out of place in 18/19 Barca.
Also, keep in mind that Messi was injured mostly during this tournament. This is him vs Porto
Birdy
Senior Member
Judging from the comp there is a huge difference, which only if you are in denial you can't see.
Stylistically he looks the same, but he can't do the same things.
Here is one specific:
Watch the first 4 min or so of the comp, where he glides his way past tons of defenders centrally in congested and super tight spaces.
That was a trademark thing. He can't do that nowadays.
The clip from tonight's game you posted shows this very clearly a couple of times: see for instance at 0.53 where he can't get past his man and he resorts to turning around just to keep the ball without progressing.
Most of the times nowadays he seems to be kicking the ball first time just because he knows he can't make the run himself.
It's funny that, judging from the clip, Mascherano set up his team really well to find Messi on the counter with acres of open space and runners around him, yet they were unable to make use of it. Messi 18/19 would have scored at least 3 by himself just by receiving in these positions and situations. It's actually part of what he was doing that season, and was set up by EV
PS: I can talk many other aspects he has declined. The only thing that looks to have remained the same is his vertical through-ball
soul24rage
Senior Member
- he glides his way past tons of defenders centrally in congested and super tight spaces. He can still do this. Watch the game vs Porto and vs Colombia in the WCQ a few weeks ago
- Most of the times nowadays he seems to be kicking the ball first time just because he knows he can't make the run himself. Why would you run with the ball, if passing is easier and moves the play faster? Also playing injured throughout the tournament is also a factor.....
- Mascherano set up his team really well to find Messi on the counter with acres of open space and runners around him. No he has not lol Masche is a fraud as a coach and is incredibly incompetent. If he wanted to do that, he would have kept out the likes of Suarez and Redondo and put in players who can move like Fafa and Cremaschi
- I can talk many other aspects he has declined. Do please let me know.
Birdy
Senior Member
Ok, now you are avoiding answering straight-forwardly.
Show me the clips of his runs against Porto and Colombia that you say are comparable to his demon runs between 4 or 5 players from 18/19
He doesn't pass it because it's better solution for the play, but because it's safer than him trying the run
PS: I am not talking about Masche in general or the best strategy to win this game. I am talking about what we saw in your clip. Messi at least 5 times in acres of open space with only 2 or 3 defenders in front of him and runners left and right. Old Messi would kill in such situations
soul24rage
Senior Member
You haven't even posed a question that you wanted answer to lol. Ask me straight and I'll respond. For Porto and Colombia, just look at Youtube.
I'm still waiting for your response of the specifics on how his strengths lost its bite and how his weakness became more blatant. Answer me this and we can have a conversation.
Messi at least 5 times in acres of open space with only 2 or 3 defenders in front of him and runners left and right. Old Messi would kill such situations. I don't know what you are trying to get at. He would still pass the ball to the runner or take a shot himself depending on the situation. This is the case 10 years ago and this is still the case now.
Birdy
Senior Member
- 'Just look at YT' is not an answer. You have to show me the supposed disproval of my claim.
I presented you relevant clips from 18/19 that support my point.
- The specific is clear: he can't dribble and run like he used to in congested spaces and areas. His mind has the right idea but his body can't follow. That's why many times he resorts to just keeping the ball without progressing, like the case I pinpointed from your clip
- No, it's not a choice that he passes more. It's also inability to make the run himself and finish the situation. These moments tonight where he had acres of space are indicative
Gnidrologist
Senior Member
What a dumpster fire of a debate. 
No shit player was probably sharper 6-7 years ago than now, when he's almost 40. The initial trolling on Chirpies part was whether he could still play in Europes top leagues with good effect and answer is - of course he could. There are bunch of near 40 year olds in top5 leagues, including our own team. Surely, he wouldn't be less useful than Levandowsky or, say, Modric. Probably a lot more useful, in fact, but his minutes would have to be managed according to his current condition and needs of the team, which could be the hardest part.
No shit player was probably sharper 6-7 years ago than now, when he's almost 40. The initial trolling on Chirpies part was whether he could still play in Europes top leagues with good effect and answer is - of course he could. There are bunch of near 40 year olds in top5 leagues, including our own team. Surely, he wouldn't be less useful than Levandowsky or, say, Modric. Probably a lot more useful, in fact, but his minutes would have to be managed according to his current condition and needs of the team, which could be the hardest part.That idiot believes if a player can't beat Qsg while playing for Inter Miami, then he is shit.What a dumpster fire of a debate.
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