21 - Frenkie de Jong

[JamDav1982]

Why do people still think that Busi must be replaced with someone that has the same play style. We need to find someone that is the complete opposite of Busi if we want to be successful again.

Look at Casemiro for example, he is everything Busi is not, Real would have never won 3 CLs in a row if they replaced Casemiro even with prime Busi. Busi type of players are extinct, just like the number 10 role(with Coutinho, James, Ozil, etc.), there is no more place in modern football for him.

They think that praising Busi is some kind of higher level understanding that others cant see.

Could give away five goals and they would claim what he brings is 'unique'.

 

[DonAK]

It's like people think Barca have always had a CDM like Busi.

That they can only play the type of football they want to see with Busi or a carbon copy of him. A lot of such smartasses on social media and some in the press too.

 

[Bobo32]

It's like people think Barca have always had a CDM like Busi.

That they can only play the type of football they want to see with Busi or a carbon copy of him. A lot of such smartasses on social media and some in the press too.

Or they remember how it was when Marquez and Edmilson (both world class players) played there instead. Maybe they also saw the improvement with Busquets, and they saw what happened when the club tried different players like Song, Mascherano, or indeed Frenkie, there.

 

[DonAK]

Or they remember how it was when Marquez and Edmilson (both world class players) played there instead. Maybe they also saw the improvement with Busquets, and they saw what happened when the club tried different players like Song, Mascherano, or indeed Frenkie, there.

We won a CL title and two league titles.

 

[Bobo32]

We won a CL title and two league titles.

Yes? Ronaldinho was there, Eto'o, Deco, Xavi and Puyol too.
If you were there and saw the change, maybe you'd understand... At least that's how I see it.

Busquets will be impossible to replace 1:1, and the club has a big challenge to find someone when he retires. Maybe it will be a completely different type again, and maybe it will be Frenkie, but Frenkie won't put Busquets on the bench for years, he just has no advantages on him.

 

[JamDav1982]

Busquets is not 'impossible' to replace.

It is easy to replace current Busi and get a more effective DM.

His passing this season been shite as well and that is last thing he had left.

Was comically bad yeterday but folk purred when he is left open and makes the passes Real are happy for him to.

 

[DonAK]

Yes? Ronaldinho was there, Eto'o, Deco, Xavi and Puyol too.
If you were there and saw the change, maybe you'd understand... At least that's how I see it.

Busquets will be impossible to replace 1:1, and the club has a big challenge to find someone when he retires. Maybe it will be a completely different type again, and maybe it will be Frenkie, but Frenkie won't put Busquets on the bench for years, he just has no advantages on him.

I'll give you one advantage:

He won't look like an 80 year old struggling to cope with the tiniest degree of intensity in the bigger games. He won't give away the ball cheaply when pressed or get pickpocketed as easily as Busquets when under duress.

Now Frenkie does move the ball slower than Busquets would, but football have changed over the years. You need players who can cope with the intensity and high demand pressure other teams put on you to be able to compete.

We'll lose that passing ability and range with Busquets, but we'll gain other things that have become far more important over the years.

Besides, we don't need Frenkie to replace Busquets 1:1. We need him to work well together with Gavi and Pedri where all three are able to press, play out of the press, track back without jogging and not lose the ball cheaply all the time.

 

[DonAK]

And if not Frenkie then we need someone else.

Busquets is not the solution. Players like him just don't work nowadays. Give me one other player starting for a big team that lacks mobility like him.

 

[JamDav1982]

Busquets slows game down a lot.

He dives for fouls when cant beat a press and often takes multiple touches and slows game down to speed that suits him.

Occassionally still has ability to pass between lines and move ball forward but him speeding up game and opening it up early is not all that common. Does the polar opposite a lot as well.

He also slows game out from back as he can barely fucking move to offer and show for it when tight and hides in same situations he cant move quickly enough for also.

 

[mc_lovin]

It is easy to replace current Busi and get a more effective DM.

Easy is stretching it... with a guy like Zakaria for example I guess we would be worse.

Anyway, I am all for replacing him as fast as possible. Either with Frenkie or cash in on him and get a highly rated DM. Hard to say who though. But I don't think we should have a profit in mind when selling him. Has to be something like a one for one trade with Tchouameni or the likes (just a random name, I have no clue about him).

 

[Bobo32]

I'll give you one advantage:

He won't look like an 80 year old struggling to cope with the tiniest degree of intensity in the bigger games. He won't give away the ball cheaply when pressed or get pickpocketed as easily as Busquets when under duress.

Now Frenkie does move the ball slower than Busquets would, but football have changed over the years. You need players who can cope with the intensity and high demand pressure other teams put on you to be able to compete.

We'll lose that passing ability and range with Busquets, but we'll gain other things that have become far more important over the years.

Besides, we don't need Frenkie to replace Busquets 1:1. We need him to work well together with Gavi and Pedri.

Frenkie looked even slower and older than Busquets yesterday.
When they both played together in a block of 2, as they did a lot the last year, Busquets overshone Frenkie despite being much less suited for that role etc.

I've written my comparison many times and should not repeat myself too much, but at least we agree about some of the on-ball part then. You think Frenkie lose the ball less which I don't agree with though.

No, if Frenkie plays DMC at Barcelona it won't be because he was better than Busquets there, but because Busquets wasn't available. He can't attempt to do what Busquets does but will play his own game, and Barcelona would be a lot worse, as they have been when he played that position.

 

[Porque]

Replacing Busquets will be impossible if we are looking for another Busquets. If we look for a DMC who is tidy on the ball, good positionally and can pass the ball simply to the midfielders in front of him who are the main conductors then it will be easier.

Most decent defensive midfielders will suffer if we are playing slow football where nobody moves. Only Busquets can be intricate enough to succeed at that type of game.

But think about it. We have been conditioned to play a handball possession based football so Busquets can conduct and Messi could finish.

I don't think Frenkie will be that player either. He doesn't see the field quick enough and is more ponderous than Busquets. Rarely chooses the simple pass, and if he does, it is after a few seconds of stuttered dribbling.

 

[mc_lovin]

It's not about replacing Busquets one for one, but getting a decent DM at all. Just look at United woes for context. It's not that easy.

Frenkie is great, but not in a midfield 3 with two out of Gavi/Pedri/Nico. At least that's my feeling.

 

[Bobo32]

Replacing Busquets will be impossible if we are looking for another Busquets. If we look for a DMC who is tidy on the ball, good positionally and can pass the ball simply to the midfielders in front of him who are the main conductors then it will be easier.

Most decent defensive midfielders will suffer if we are playing slow football where nobody moves. Only Busquets can be intricate enough to succeed at that type of game.

Think about it. We have been conditioned to play handball possession based football so Busquets can conduct and Messi could finish.

Yeah Busquets must miss Messi more than most.
And Messi must miss Busquets as much as anything...

These easy passes to the midfielders will not be as great as it could potentially be now with Busquets still there. Dembele and Frenkie both recieved perfect passes between the lines yesterday from Busquets, but just lost the ball. Frenkie, Gavi, Pedri and Nico will have to improve A LOT with worse service from behind, they aren't really that creative on their own.

I watched some old clip of Frenkie btw and it struck me that he never really looked to play on the front foot, it was always more of these little dribbles and then the slowish pass TOWARDS a player, not on the right foot, at the right time. He has got some bad habits.

 

[iniestaGOAT]

It's not about replacing Busquets one for one, but getting a decent DM at all. Just look at United woes for context. It's not that easy.

Frenkie is great, but not in a midfield 3 with two out of Gavi/Pedri/Nico. At least that's my feeling.

It's going to be Nico who replaces bousquets in the end