serghei
Senior Member
He has zero points. This is not a popularity contest. In a normal team you have clear hierarchies, roles, functions. Those are respected no matter what, or else things become chaotic and anarchic.
Quique Setien
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He has zero points. This is not a popularity contest. In a normal team you have clear hierarchies, roles, functions. Those are respected no matter what, or else things become chaotic and anarchic.
serghei
Senior Member
BBZ, Ernie is not the causer of all evil. He is just a good manager who, faced with problems, has decided to mask the issues as well as he could and avoid any conflicts. He was a great short term option, and a terrible medium-long term option.
It's like you have a viral infection and instead of taking an anti-viral drug and clear the virus out of the organism, thus curing the organism, you choose to treat the symptoms the virus causes while leaving the virus to grow even stronger.
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George_Costanza
Active member
No, he wasn't.
I would say he was ok the first year. It would have been great if it wasn't for Roma and Betis losses. Very poor in the second year.
Andrew M
New member
Better than ok in the first year imo. He should have been sacked after Anfield but credit where it's due
serghei
Senior Member
I would say he was very good in first year, average (to decent at best, even if I don't agree) in the 2nd year mostly because the team collapsed in the key period of the season losing 2/3 titles in pretty embarrassing fashion. Terrible in the 3rd year.
The problem with him is that he was at his best on short term. We played our best football under Ernie relatively early after he came. Which is a sign that he wasn't at all a good fit to rebuild the team.
The problem is we invested a lot of money under Valverde, into what should have been clear and decisive steps towards phasing out the veterans and rebuilding the team at least to a good extent. Money that were mostly wasted. That is both the board's and the manager's fault.
The problem with him is that he was at his best on short term. We played our best football under Ernie relatively early after he came. Which is a sign that he wasn't at all a good fit to rebuild the team.
The problem is we invested a lot of money under Valverde, into what should have been clear and decisive steps towards phasing out the veterans and rebuilding the team at least to a good extent. Money that were mostly wasted. That is both the board's and the manager's fault.
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serghei
Senior Member
Also, that article [MENTION=21445]behindbrowneyes[/MENTION] posted from L'Equipe via Sport, about the main cause of frequent injuries by Dembele embarrass us as a club.
That is the main problem. We train based on the needs of Pique, Busi, Messi, Suarez. Old, slow men, who are past it physically based on the demands of the current game. Hard sprinters like Dembele require something else. There's absolutely no reason why Dembele would have no issues in the fast and very physical Bundesliga league, or Ligue 1 for that matter, but somehow here he can't do a sprint because his muscle ruptures. It's a joke and surely down to the amateurish level in our training.
Everything fits. Certainly more plausible than the scenario where his genes suddenly make him injury prone after landing in Catalunya.
That is the main problem. We train based on the needs of Pique, Busi, Messi, Suarez. Old, slow men, who are past it physically based on the demands of the current game. Hard sprinters like Dembele require something else. There's absolutely no reason why Dembele would have no issues in the fast and very physical Bundesliga league, or Ligue 1 for that matter, but somehow here he can't do a sprint because his muscle ruptures. It's a joke and surely down to the amateurish level in our training.
Everything fits. Certainly more plausible than the scenario where his genes suddenly make him injury prone after landing in Catalunya.
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Barcilliant
Senior Member
You can only play fast direct football IF you have
A solid defense. Fast direct football means more turnovers and your defense should be able to absorb pressure.
Actual fast players. Who has pace in this squad. From memory Semedo, Dembele and Braithwaite. Firpo is okish.
The rest are fucking turtles Busquets, De Jong and Arthur are so fucking slow by the time they move the ball the opposition has already closed the spaces.
serghei
Senior Member
I'd add De Jong as a player with good pace. Not great, but good enough to contribute in a more direct style. Ajax were pretty much a counter team and he was their best player.
Also, let's not assume that this is the best fitness state these players can be. The squad was horribly prepared this season, starting with the crap preseason which was all marketing whoring around, idiotic money-grabs without considering that preseason is mostly about setting up the full season, not making money.
malvolio
Senior Member
it's not as if they don't respect the schedule or coach orders. if bumtien wanted to play 3-5-2 they followed instructions, even tough everyone knew it's a terrible idea. this is not like when ronaldinho came to training after partying all night.
also, you already know this but seem to turn a blind eye - this is no "normal" club. managing barca or real is always hard as you have to deal with the best players in the world, who in most cases have won it all.
and along comes cow herder bumtien to teach these old decorated dogs new tricks. like playing 3-5-2 or getting into a classico with 4 defensive midfielders as starters. yeah, he showed them alright.
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Barcilliant
Senior Member
I wanted a big name manager to steady the ship and see the season out. I didn't want Setien but it's simply not his fault. There is no squad depth and the players available are fucking done. The main factor in our downfall is the board but these pampered, entitled seniors are getting on my nerves. As senior players it's their fucking job to show leadership and come up with solutions instead of sulking and showing no fight.
So the assistant coach shows that he cares and how is that a fucking problem?
I actually hope we lose to Napoli because if we face sides like Bayern, Liverpool or city and have a bad night w are fucked.
I can see us losing by 5 or 6 easily and that's just the away match.
So the assistant coach shows that he cares and how is that a fucking problem?
I actually hope we lose to Napoli because if we face sides like Bayern, Liverpool or city and have a bad night w are fucked.
I can see us losing by 5 or 6 easily and that's just the away match.
Barcilliant
Senior Member
They are no longer the best in the world. Messi yes. The rest are crap. Slow, distracted and entitled.
malvolio
Senior Member
sure they are not, but it's somehow understandable for them to be entitled. what is not understandable is the board hiring bumtien
serghei
Senior Member
I have seen how these players behave under a manager they like and 'respect'. Historic humiliations like Roma and Liverpool. With this mentality we'll see a new team in 2030. Enjoy 37 years old Pique, 38 years old Suarez and 38 years old Messi running things. Because they have won so much and know so many things.
That's why they play with the intensity of a women's team. I believe if you ask all players form Barcelona and Barcelona Femeni to do 30 laps on Camp Nou some memebers of the womens team would outlast Pique, Messi, Suarez and Busquets.
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Potroh
New member
Nothing is more obvious than that.
Not just because some of us (a tiny minority) said the very same things a year ago or so, but for sole logical reason, namely that there's no other logical explanation.
Probably the guy was late for one session or maybe two, which was good for the Catalan press and the haters here, but even most acid haters should admit that it's a virtual impossibility that someone becomes injured all the time, since he wasn't injury-prone earlier, at different clubs.
Sorry for the personal remark, but I trained several injury-prone players as a coach and and even if those guys are known to be sensitive and the like, it never happens the way it happened to poor Dembele, so it simply cries out for an explanation, which in his case cannot be anything else but the poor and rarely individualized training scenario.
These technically gifted sprinters have always needed special and specific training in the world of the game, which was most definitely not given to him, or carefully enough.
I rarely disagree with you but I think you are mistaken there.
Valverde was more successful during the period of his 1st season, but at the same time that very first year of his was the base and foundation for the decline of his later years.
He hasn't been really good ever, it was the the team still having been better almost three years ago, but EV's first year was the undeniable beginning of losing the stylistic features and his 4-4-2 was successful at times, it worked like the horizon of a black hole. His lack of tactical repertoire was the same during his 1st year, with slightly better results.
Marshall D Teach
Active member
Not a lot of options in the middle of the season.
What's really confusing is not firing Valverde after Anfield.
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