Mavericky Puig

God Serena said:

This is completely unrelated to the argument at hand, but despite your views still somewhat aligning with what I'm used to, your voice overall has changed drastically at some point. Like, you're typing in full, proper grammar and everything. Perfect use of commas and capitalization outside of one minor mistake that could easily be a typo, and your tone overall has become more aggressive.

Are you really khaled?

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It sounds like Khaled to me.
The same footballing views as always.

About grammar and punctuation, Khaled is from a part of the world where they write differently, if I am not mistaking.
So, he probably adjusted and improved over years.

About being aggressive:
1. forum turn into 2 tribes in the last years, so that also played a part in a level of aggression in lots of users
2. Khaled is older in every year so his views on some things (social dynamics) might have changed
3. on top of all, he was reading my posts in a relationship thread, so he surely knows that nice guys (and spineless guys who bend over and never fight/argue) finish last in life, jobs and with women, so this is just an evolved Khaled who fights for views and who answers when someone attacks him.

If only our team, some players and especially choirboys La Masia products would have shown some traits from a point no3, we wouldn't be bullied for years on almost every single away CL KO match.
This type of Khaled's attitude and a backbone when you attack him is what we lack in matches when things get dirty and bloody.

te amo barca said:

he explained his position in forum de amigos thread. Basically confessed he does it just to spite lovers of possession football.

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1. a huge part is being against extreme Pepistas, true
2. a large part is because I really do think that he sucks in attacking third, is meh in defending, has low stamina.
A nice player to have a in a team, but nowhere near the levels of hype from Barcaforum who are historically always biased towards his type of players due to classical answers: we are Barca, he is Barca's DNA, go watch Stoke, I don't care even if we lose as long as we play nice and move the ball well because this is why I love Barca.

God Serena said:

This is completely unrelated to the argument at hand, but despite your views still somewhat aligning with what I'm used to, your voice overall has changed drastically at some point. Like, you're typing in full, proper grammar and everything. Perfect use of commas and capitalization outside of one minor mistake that could easily be a typo, and your tone overall has become more aggressive.

Are you really khaled?

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Had an English exam one hour before I made that post

wow, the kid played only 22 minutes in La Liga, half-game in CDR and all of you already think he isn't good enough? Seriously, how many of you work as senior management and part of your responsibilities is to develop fresh graduates/analysts? I doubt any of you did that. Now don't tell me this is different.

George_Costanza said:

wow, the kid played only 22 minutes in La Liga, half-game in CDR and all of you already think he isn't good enough? Seriously, how many of you work as senior management and part of your responsibilities is to develop fresh graduates/analysts? I doubt any of you did that. Now don't tell me this is different.

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You could also ask:
1. a player will be 21 in August
2. not a single youth NT coach has ever called him, which means that he is meh even compared to players of his age category
3. EV has never called him
4. Setien seems to have given up on him quite fast, after "seeing" him in person and his skills on training grounds and in matches

Too many coaches in a row don't see anything in him.
Either they are all blind or he is not good enough for the highest levels.

BBZ8800 said:

You could also ask:
1. a player will be 21 in August
2. not a single youth NT coach has ever called him, which means that he is meh even compared to players of his age category
3. EV has never called him
4. Setien seems to have given up on him quite fast, after "seeing" him in person and his skills on training grounds and in matches

Too many coaches in a row don't see anything in him.
Either they are all blind or he is not good enough for the highest levels.

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1. A good age to start including him in the first team.
2. Not been called for youth NT doesn't mean he is bad. Since you are stats poster, could you tell us how many times Busquets was called up for youth or U21 NT? (3 times) How about Pep Guardiola? (2 times) Even Carles Puyol was called only 7 times in 5 years between 1995 and 2000. Those are a club and senior NT legends.
3. EV can suck my *&$#
4. Go back to my original post, 22 league games minutes is NOT enough time to judge any player performance and definitely not enough time to develop and jell him with the team.

George_Costanza said:

1. A good age to start including him in the first team.
2. Not been called for youth NT doesn't mean he is bad. Since you are stats poster, could you tell us how many times Busquets was called up for youth or U21 NT? (3 times) How about Pep Guardiola? (2 times) Even Carles Puyol was called only 7 times in 5 years between 1995 and 2000. Those are a club and senior NT legends.
3. EV can suck my *&$#
4. Go back to my original post, 22 league games minutes is NOT enough time to judge any player performance and definitely not enough time to develop and jell him with the team.

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Pep played 14 matches in youth NT teams by the age of 21.
Puyol played 12 matches for youth NT teams.
Busquets is different since he came to La Masia aged 19.
And even then, he played 3 NT matches, but he started to play for an NT team aged 20 years and 8 Months (Riki's current age).

But again, Busi is different since NT scouts usually follow ALL youth players from bigger teams (Barca, Real, Atletico) and they are less familiar with players from smaller teams.
A question for you: try to find one Barca's player who played for La Masia from an early age and for whom scouts knew from the early age=and who was never called for any youth NT teams, but later he managed to turn his career and became an awesome players.

If I remember correctly, there is none.

Let the kid go and stop romanticizing him.
Riqui is even far from the level of our best youth talents in the past.
He is done here and should leave this following summer.

I dont get the relevance at all. You try to construct an argument with youth callups? There are plenty of reasons why players dont get called (Barcelona has also a say in this).

And as always its best to form your own opinion by watching a player and not just by looking at stats (like appearances...). Puig is a brilliant footballer, he was spectacular in preseason. But thats it - a bit like Rafinha who looked best for us when the intensity was low. You dont need to be a genius to see that Puig needs to bulk up a lot (which seems unlikely from experience).

BBZ8800 said:

Pep played 14 matches in youth NT teams by the age of 21.
Puyol played 12 matches for youth NT teams.
Busquets is different since he came to La Masia aged 19.
And even then, he played 3 NT matches, but he started to play for an NT team aged 20 years and 8 Months (Riki's current age).

But again, Busi is different since NT scouts usually follow ALL youth players from bigger teams (Barca, Real, Atletico) and they are less familiar with players from smaller teams.
A question for you: try to find one Barca's player who played for La Masia from an early age and for whom scouts knew from the early age=and who was never called for any youth NT teams, but later he managed to turn his career and became an awesome players.

If I remember correctly, there is none.

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I have no idea where do you get your stats from. Pep played only 2 matches U21. The 12 more matches you added was above 21 (for U23 NT). Same with Puyol, 3 games U18 and 4 games U21. Notice that your argument was Puig age 20, so I included the games played by his age exact which should be U21.

Regarding your question, there are many players who only managed to play a few games and became so good later on, also there are some players who never been called for youth NT teams but became "awsome" players like Luis Milla for example (arguably top 10 greatest graduates of all time from Barcelona's La Masia).

George_Costanza said:

Seriously, how many of you work as senior management and part of your responsibilities is to develop fresh graduates/analysts? I doubt any of you did that. Now don't tell me this is different.

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So let me ask:
1-How many fresh graduates would you hire? If you are a top firm out there would you give a chance to all the class of fresh graduates every year?
2-If you don't hire all of them, how you select between them? Is interview and former expertise/grades enough to select one or two you want?
3-If you hire all of them on intern basis, would keep all of them despite the company need a few of them only? do you cut some of seniors or avoid hiring top notch experienced employees to give those young graduates their chance?

Let's be honest here, Puig isn't even proven among his peers, there is nothing to make us believe he is better than Alena or same level of Fati/Pedri etc.
The club has to be picky because every year La Masia will have 15+ hopefuls getting 1 year older and want better chance/pay day.
You are basing your post on the assumption that Puig is a standout young player that we need to be patient with due to his youth. This is true when it comes to talents like Fati and may be Alena but not Puig. His "grades"is simply bad.
He is a guy who finished with a "C" on his exams and expects to be hired by google after graduation without any additional experience.
Puig is simply still the responsibilty of the HR not the senior management. He isn't hired yet

khaled_a_d said:

So let me ask:
1-How many fresh graduates would you hire? If you are a top firm out there would you give a chance to all the class of fresh graduates every year?
2-If you don't hire all of them, how you select between them? Is interview and former expertise/grades enough to select one or two you want?
3-If you hire all of them on intern basis, would keep all of them despite the company need a few of them only? do you cut some of seniors or avoid hiring top notch experienced employees to give those young graduates their chance?

Let's be honest here, Puig isn't even proven among his peers, there is nothing to make us believe he is better than Alena or same level of Fati/Pedri etc.
The club has to be picky because every year La Masia will have 15+ hopefuls getting 1 year older and want better chance/pay day.
You are basing your post on the assumption that Puig is a standout young player that we need to be patient with due to his youth. This is true when it comes to talents like Fati and may be Alena but not Puig. His "grades"is simply bad.
He is a guy who finished with a "C" on his exams and expects to be hired by google after graduation without any additional experience.
Puig is simply still the responsibilty of the HR not the senior management. He isn't hired yet

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Since you are a doctor or dentist I think let me tell you how this model work in top firms/fortune 500, and this model is very applicable especially for FC Barcelona.

Those La Masia aren’t fresh graduates, they are considered management trainee. A person being trained to be included/groomed to be a manager in a company or organization (like La Masia). A fresh graduate is those who were trained by other academies, not La Masia. Do you get the difference? Management trainee is trained to take duties once they graduate from their training -usually between 1 to 2 years- and by then they are accustomed to the working culture and have the necessary skills to get the promotion. This is the equivalent of Barcelona skills and footballing philosophy DNA.

Now, you get few managers in those firms who are looking for immediate results and want to hire ready-made salesmen for example. Those managers, don’t care about the firm policy nor culture and most likely themselves got hired from other competitive firms. In the short run, those managers will make money for the firm but you see it’s a short term solution and in the long term, the losses on acquiring expensive employees while still the big cost for training fresh graduates who will never assume the duties they are trained for.

khaled_a_d said:

So let me ask:
1-How many fresh graduates would you hire? If you are a top firm out there would you give a chance to all the class of fresh graduates every year?
2-If you don't hire all of them, how you select between them? Is interview and former expertise/grades enough to select one or two you want?
3-If you hire all of them on intern basis, would keep all of them despite the company need a few of them only? do you cut some of seniors or avoid hiring top notch experienced employees to give those young graduates their chance?

Let's be honest here, Puig isn't even proven among his peers, there is nothing to make us believe he is better than Alena or same level of Fati/Pedri etc.
The club has to be picky because every year La Masia will have 15+ hopefuls getting 1 year older and want better chance/pay day.
You are basing your post on the assumption that Puig is a standout young player that we need to be patient with due to his youth. This is true when it comes to talents like Fati and may be Alena but not Puig. His "grades"is simply bad.
He is a guy who finished with a "C" on his exams and expects to be hired by google after graduation without any additional experience.
Puig is simply still the responsibilty of the HR not the senior management. He isn't hired yet

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Well Khaled, you should know ... Georgie Boy has a very stringent set of criteria that needs to be met before he'd give a candidate his seal of approval


Now, given Puig received a certificate of completion from his weekend internship at AGIBA and his free-flowing playing style's been hailed as the proud embodiment of the Catalan modernista movement, let's cut our C student some slack, put him on a Sumo diet and give him some playtime at home games on the 2nd half where we're dominating 4 - 0. Even if we end up loaning or selling him, at least it'd be entertaining to see this speedy dude try some 1-2s and dribbles. Folks hated Lucho for his mad professor crazy lab experiments but I personally enjoyed it haha

George_Costanza said:

wow, the kid played only 22 minutes in La Liga, half-game in CDR and all of you already think he isn't good enough? Seriously, how many of you work as senior management and part of your responsibilities is to develop fresh graduates/analysts? I doubt any of you did that. Now don't tell me this is different.

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22 minutes doesn't mean anything, that number could be 0 and the fact would still remain, the kid has the body of a 14 year old girl, and no matter how skilled you are, that is just not going to work at the highest level. Even Qique, who is desperate to play that high passing, possession style, couldn't justify giving him more minutes when we're in such a tense point of our season. I imagine he's *really* bemoaning the loss of Alena, who is superior in just about every way... but alas.

George_Costanza said:

Those La Masia aren’t fresh graduates, they are considered management trainee. A person being trained to be included/groomed to be a manager in a company or organization (like La Masia). A fresh graduate is those who were trained by other academies, not La Masia. Do you get the difference? Management trainee is trained to take duties once they graduate from their training -usually between 1 to 2 years- and by then they are accustomed to the working culture and have the necessary skills to get the promotion. This is the equivalent of Barcelona skills and footballing philosophy DNA.

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You know, I will ignore that this is a very weak analogy, and that La Masia is actually a school and will roll with your example.
We have a firm called FCB, that firm can not employ more than 25 employee full time. OTOH they have a 23 management trainee whom they can't continue to be a trainee more than 3 years, every year there is another 15 new candidate applying to be trainee too.

Do you accept a turnover rate over of 10-15 employee annually? or you have to cut some of those early on and be blunt with them? Tell them they don't belong to the big boys and should try their luck somewhere else?

Why is there so much "debate" about player, who almost haven't played for the first team yet?