Toni Kroos

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Kroos has played the Xavi role at Bayern and added a youthful vibrancy to it. He dictates the play the way Xavi does, but also mixes it up with more variety in his passing, energetic movement, and defensive workrate.

Xavi is still important, but he isn't notably "good" in a consistent manner anymore. At his best when he is rested, he still provides quality play and his usual vital output. Week in week out playing as much as he has this season, he doesn't boss the game anymore instead just doing what he does in a correct manner which is significant but not high in quality or lively. Busquets is the true boss of our midfield now (not in the same role), it's becoming more and more apparent in recent matches.

Kroos dictating the play at Bayern like Xavi?

Not from what I have seen at all.

Even looking at the stats he is not far off 30 less passes a game than Xavi with other Bayern midfielders achieving a lot more.

Even the idea that he has a much bigger range is not quite right as Xavi hits almost as many long passes.

Xavi is still better on the ball and at dictating games than Kroos, a lot better.
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Playing more passes doesn't make you a better player. Xavi demands the ball a lot more than Kroos, therefore he's a "lot better at dictating games"? No, he just chooses to take on a more imposing role which is his personal style. I doubt there will be another player who asks for the ball as much as Xavi does and spends more time on it. Every pass or touch he makes isn't priceless and godly, nowadays it's become rather slow to be honest.

The fact is that you are just looking at the stats. The numbers would say that Lahm has been their 'Xavi'. If you consistently pay attention to the play and watch games, you'd notice that it is indeed Kroos who is controlling their play as the midfield orchestrator. Since Pep's arrival they've made use of some of Barca's tactics, one of which is a midfield player that sets the tempo for the passing play. Kroos has taken on that role and succeeded, he is effective and quality whereas Xavi is nowadays only effective because of age and fatigue.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Playing more passes doesn't make you a better player. Xavi demands the ball a lot more than Kroos, therefore he's a "lot better at dictating games"? No, he just chooses to take on a more imposing role which is his personal style. I doubt there will be another player who asks for the ball as much as Xavi does and spends more time on it. Every pass or touch he makes isn't priceless and godly, nowadays it's become rather slow to be honest.

The fact is that you are just looking at the stats. The numbers would say that Lahm has been their 'Xavi'. If you consistently pay attention to the play and watch games, you'd notice that it is indeed Kroos who is controlling their play as the midfield orchestrator. Since Pep's arrival they've made use of some of Barca's tactics, one of which is a midfield player that sets the tempo for the passing play. Kroos has taken on that role and succeeded, he is effective and quality whereas Xavi is nowadays only effective because of age and fatigue.

Playing more passes doesn't make you a better player but it is an essential stat in looking at someone who is being said to play the 'Xavi role'.

I thought you said that's what Kroos has been doing but now you are showing the differences between them?

He is not playing the Xavi role at all or dictating play through possession the way Xavi does.

I agree Xavi along with Iniesta together are a bit slow in getting ball forward but Xavi still dominates Kroos in a lot of areas when looking at how they dominate the ball and what they do with the ball. IF you are claiming Kroos plays the Xavi role.
 

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Playing the Xavi role =/= mirroring Xavi in exact style. He controls the play in Bayern, who play a similar possession game to what Barca have played in years past (with the key difference of being more wing oriented than CF). In that midfield, he is the general of the passing play distributing the ball around and setting the tempo.

To make the comparison more clear, let's stop using current Xavi as the pillar for what the Xavi role is. Let's say that both players are the midfield conductors for the various teams. Both teams play a similar passing style, both midfields have a similar structure, therefore the comparison of midfield conductor can be translated between the teams. In that role: Kroos is more energetic in movement and controlling the buildup play, quicker in playing passes and opening up the game, and has a better defensive workrate. Xavi plays more passes and remains effective at the role that is required of him, but is much slower and less dynamic at it which forfeits him from being described as "brilliant" or "great" currently. Head to head comparison, Kroos is the better player now and can still re-add a scoring dimension to his game.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Playing the Xavi role =/= mirroring Xavi in exact style. He controls the play in Bayern, who play a similar possession game to what Barca have played in years past (with the key difference of being more wing oriented than CF). In that midfield, he is the general of the passing play distributing the ball around and setting the tempo.

To make the comparison more clear, let's stop using current Xavi as the pillar for what the Xavi role is. Let's say that both players are the midfield conductors for the various teams. Both teams play a similar passing style, both midfields have a similar structure, therefore the comparison of midfield conductor can be translated between the teams. In that role: Kroos is more energetic in movement and controlling the buildup play, quicker in playing passes and opening up the game, and has a better defensive workrate. Xavi plays more passes and remains effective at the role that is required of him, but is much slower and less dynamic at it which forfeits him from being described as "brilliant" or "great" currently. Head to head comparison, Kroos is the better player now and can still re-add a scoring dimension to his game.

He doesn't control the possession of Bayern even remotely the way Xavi does/has done for Barca. Xavi does that in a way Kroos cant. That was my point when you said that Kroos plays the Xavi role.

Kroos is clearly better defensively but Xavi is better on the ball and will dictate the play more effectively even now.

Head for head now for me Xavi is still the better player with the ball.
 

AfricanBavarian

New member
He doesn't control the possession of Bayern even remotely the way Xavi does/has done for Barca. Xavi does that in a way Kroos cant. That was my point when you said that Kroos plays the Xavi role.

Kroos is clearly better defensively but Xavi is better on the ball and will dictate the play more effectively even now.

Head for head now for me Xavi is still the better player with the ball.

Your now making a different comparison than Don Andres, your talking about Xavi's ball skills instead of how each control the tempo
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Your now making a different comparison than Don Andres, your talking about Xavi's ball skills instead of how each control the tempo

No I am not, he claimed that Kroos plays the Xavi role. I am saying he doesn't and cant.

I am comparing them to what he originally said which is the Xavi role which is about ball retention. Which he has since said he did not mean any way.

Anyway for me Xavi still controls tempo better than Kroos.
 
Playing the Xavi role =/= mirroring Xavi in exact style. He controls the play in Bayern, who play a similar possession game to what Barca have played in years past (with the key difference of being more wing oriented than CF). In that midfield, he is the general of the passing play distributing the ball around and setting the tempo.

To make the comparison more clear, let's stop using current Xavi as the pillar for what the Xavi role is. Let's say that both players are the midfield conductors for the various teams. Both teams play a similar passing style, both midfields have a similar structure, therefore the comparison of midfield conductor can be translated between the teams. In that role: Kroos is more energetic in movement and controlling the buildup play, quicker in playing passes and opening up the game, and has a better defensive workrate. Xavi plays more passes and remains effective at the role that is required of him, but is much slower and less dynamic at it which forfeits him from being described as "brilliant" or "great" currently. Head to head comparison, Kroos is the better player now and can still re-add a scoring dimension to his game.
I agree with that assessment, I think both players very similar roles in their respective teams even if they play it differently. However, I wouldn't say that Kroos has been better than Xavi. Yes, Kroos has been playing at a higher level more consistently, but the problem with Xavi is that at 33 going on 34 he no longer has the same stamina level he once had hence the dip in form. That being said, whenever Xavi seemed to get some rest he always looked like he was back to his younger self again, so I still think that Xavi's A game (which he still has it, only more sporadically) is still better than Kroos' A game.

Of course all these player-to-player comparisons ignore the more important question of whether or not the player is actually a good fit for the team he plays for. Xavi would still be a better fit for Barca even though Kroos has had a better season. But as mentioned, the problem with Xavi is not a dip in form but a loss of stamina; he still can play at the same level of 2008-10, he just can't do it every game; and that's why we need to better manage his appearances.
 

Paganinisrvnge

New member
I honestly think Xavi isn't even a top 5 midfielder in the world anymore. He was BY FAR the best up until about halfway through the 2011-12 season when injuries, age, fatigue, etc. started to catch up to him. He's put in a few occasional 2008-2011 level Xavi performances here and there but he's nowhere near the level he was back then on a consistent basis.

Iniesta, Busquets, and Kroos are all better than him right now. It's time to stop relying on Xavi to be the player he was and let him rest more while giving the others like Cesc and Sergi Roberto more matches.
 

Messi_Goal

New member
I think Fàbregas should replace Xavi now but Kroos would be even better. imo he would be the perfect replacement for Xavi
 

Home of Barca Fans

Top