Quique Setien

@potroh welcome back.

Correct me if I’m wrong but where the fuck was guardiola resume whenever he stepped in the 08-09 season? Was Barca B enough to get their respect? He was no Rikjaard and he was no Cruyff THEN, so I don’t really understand the midtable coach argument like that. That’s not to say Setien probably isn’t the man for the job but I’m pretty sure we all know that Setien/Sarabia entered a burning house. Honestly what coach specially mid season can make such changes with the egos of the amigos? No strategic direction of the board whatsoever.

Potroh said:

You can blame the players but it is just an educated guess saying they want to avoid work or intensity.

This team is built around Messi so it is natural and obvious if Messi has a strong word of the elementary game-plan, even if it is obviously the coach's task to invent.
A star footballer, perhaps the best ever, with no known laziness or at 33 has the rights, not to dictate as such, but to cleverly and friendly influence what is going on in a team that is more or less bears his name and logo.

Perhaps there are some problems with 2-3 players, probably there are problems with Setien, who introduced a coaching team, instead of being the strong one alone, but the main problem is the board, as we all all know it for years.

Click to expand...

"with no known laziness" lol
Try to remember the moments Messi actually contributed defensively the last 5 years...

Whether as the best player ever, he (or all of the 'old guard' Pique, Suarez, etc) should have 'rights' is another issue.
IMO they SHOULD NOT have any kind of right that goes against the well-being of the team on the pitch.
They earn money that other people could not make in 100 lifetimes.
If they cannot adhere to instructions, they should simply warm the bench.
It came out from reports that a normal training session under Valverde would last only 20 min!!! Can you believe this?
We are talking about professional athletes. That's their job!

No wonder also the reports saying that Pep back in 2012 demanded full authority to kick certain players out with ill work-ethic.
They have become complacent, lazy, and arrogant. They have too much power.
Success creates arrogance.
The locker-room is toxic.

The board is responsible above everyone else of course for letting this happen, but 'club de Amigos' was created by the arrogant old guard

UEFA_Barça_Chris said:

Correct me if I?m wrong but where the fuck was guardiola resume whenever he stepped in the 08-09 season? Was Barca B enough to get their respect? He was no Rikjaard and he was no Cruyff THEN, so I don?t really understand the midtable coach argument like that. That?s not to say Setien probably isn?t the man for the job but I?m pretty sure we all know that Setien/Sarabia entered a burning house. Honestly what coach specially mid season can make such changes with the egos of the amigos? No strategic direction of the board whatsoever.

Click to expand...

Pep was a great player for Barca so automatically will be respected by the players. He had status within the club that makes a huge difference.

At Setien's age, if he was gonna be significantly successful in football he would have been so before now

The issue here extends far beyond Setien and Sarabria.

I've said repeatedly before that the amigos clan needs to be broken up at all costs.

Some of the senior players have gained too much power within the dressing room and to a toxic extent.

Even if the club brings in a Ten Hag or a Nagelsmann, they would eventually be undermined aswell.

Especially if they pursue a tactical direction that is not in favor of the amigos.

The fundamental issue here is the arrogance and entitlement of the seniors, many of whom are well past their prime.

The open contempt and disrespect shown to Sarabria and Setien shows just how toxic the dressing room is atm.

Which top coach in their right mind would want to manage the club without being able to clean house?

jairzinho said:

The issue here extends far beyond Setien and Sarabria.

I've said repeatedly before that the amigos clan needs to be broken up at all costs.

Some of the senior players have gained too much power within the dressing room and to a toxic extent.

Even if the club brings in a Ten Hag or a Nagelsmann, they would eventually be undermined aswell.

Especially if they pursue a tactical direction that is not in favor of the amigos.

The fundamental issue here is the arrogance and entitlement of the seniors, many of whom are well past their prime.

The open contempt and disrespect shown to Sarabria and Setien shows just how toxic the dressing room is atm.

Which top coach in their right mind would want to manage the club without being able to clean house?

Click to expand...

Exactly. Unless players and board are moved on this club is going to go downhill very fast.

Potroh said:

You can blame the players but it is just an educated guess saying they want to avoid work or intensity.

This team is built around Messi so it is natural and obvious if Messi has a strong word of the elementary game-plan, even if it is obviously the coach's task to invent.
A star footballer, perhaps the best ever, with no known laziness or at 33 has the rights, not to dictate as such, but to cleverly and friendly influence what is going on in a team that is more or less bears his name and logo.

Perhaps there are some problems with 2-3 players, probably there are problems with Setien, who introduced a coaching team, instead of being the strong one alone, but the main problem is the board, as we all all know it for years.

Click to expand...

Yes the main problem is the board but you kind of see a pattern here already with the senior players. They clearly don't respect Setien and his men and I don't care how right the senior players were in their disagreement with Setien, it was plain wrong for them to behave like they did, openly ridiculing and humiliating Sarabia and Setien. That was just not right. To think Messi and those players are professionals and role models, wow.

The thing is, we have had quite a few managers in the last several years and nobody seemed to be able to inject a little bit of life into this listless team headed by the senior players. To me the writing is on the wall, the senior players are clearly the problem here. We could get the best manager in the world and still be the same, because of these senior players.

Luftstalag14 said:

Yes the main problem is the board but you kind of see a pattern here already with the senior players. They clearly don't respect Setien and his men and I don't care how right the senior players were in their disagreement with Setien, it was plain wrong for them to behave like they did, openly ridiculing and humiliating Sarabia and Setien. That was just not right. To think Messi and those players are professionals and role models, wow.

The thing is, we have had quite a few managers in the last several years and nobody seemed to be able to inject a little bit of life into this listless team headed by the senior players. To me the writing is on the wall, the senior players are clearly the problem here. We could get the best manager in the world and still be the same, because of these senior players.

Click to expand...

Translation phase should have started after Lucho left. The board thought Shitverde would groom young players and handle the old players. Instead Shitverde took the easy way out and gave the keys to the dressing room to the seniors. The rot set in and now seniors think they own the club.
Pathetic Barto wanted to please the seniors so he brought in a yes man. If we had a strong manager backed by the board the transition phase would have been smooth and guys like Rakitic, Busquets, Suarez and Alba would have been gone.
Instead we have this shit shower where the players have held the club to ransom.

Luftstalag14 said:

The thing is, we have had quite a few managers in the last several years and nobody seemed to be able to inject a little bit of life into this listless team headed by the senior players. To me the writing is on the wall, the senior players are clearly the problem here. We could get the best manager in the world and still be the same, because of these senior players.

Click to expand...

I would love to see them pulling this shit to Capello or Van Gall or Alex.

Richard.H said:

If my Spanish translation is correct, Bartomeu went to Setien's house to have a meeting with him (according to Sport.es)

Click to expand...

They report that "big 4" went to Setien to express support. In other words, win win or get out.
Poor Setien was just a patch. He is saving spot for someone to sit on after summer.

JerseyAddict said:

I would love to see them pulling this shit to Capello or Van Gall or Alex.

Click to expand...

Lol, they would be out of the team no matter who they are. If I were Setien and would know I'm gone in the summer after the seniors sabotaged me, Messi and Suarez would be benched today, as well as all others who were in their camp. Fuck it, go out like a man.

Someone with balls to stand up against everyone would probably just quit once he realizes he can't do shit. But we most likely won't see that because they wouldn't hire a coach like that in the first place.

From recent coaches i could only see Lucho have the guts but during his time the squad still looked alright and 2014 was the last time the team got actually noticeably better, from there on it was a steady decline.

I think a strong coach, this board and the powerful, old team core simply don't go well together at this point. Someone just walking in, not giving a shit benching a bunch of veterans and winning all the time with Puig, Fati etc seems quite unrealistic so the board would need to be fine with that, not letting the team bully the coach and act accordingly on the transfer window. But no way this will happen this summer. And even then they'd still need to find the right coach because there is still a lot more to it than just the will to bench old players.

MTL_Barca said:

Someone with balls to stand up against everyone would probably just quite once he realizes he can't do shit. But we most likely won't see that because they wouldn't hire a coach like that in the first place.

From recent coaches i could only see Lucho have the guts but during his time the squad still looked alright and 2014 was the last time the team got actually noticeably better, from there on it was a steady decline.

I think a strong coach, this board and the powerful, old team core simply don't go well together at this point. Someone just walking in, not giving a shit benching a bunch of veterans and winning all the time with Puig, Fati etc seems quite unrealistic so the board would need to be fine with that, not letting the team bully the coach and act accordingly on the transfer window. But no way this will happen this summer. And even then they'd still need to find the right coach because there is still a lot more to it than just the will to bench old players.

Click to expand...

Yea, pretty much. The manager alone can't cut it. It has to be a duo, board + manager. If either member of this pair is not fully on board, nothing will change in the right direction.

Don't agree with getting Pimienta. We destroy two teams with one move. Better to leave Pimienta in the B team, have them promote and have a year in the second division. Then maybe he can be Xavi assistant in the first team the season after and bleed the youth generation in with his experience and knowledge of them. Just an idea.

If Setien does go though. Maybe bring in a strong motivator for the CL mini knockout tournament and maybe the season after. Someone that is not going to tactically implement his ideas but get the team confident and ready for a go at that tournament. Rijkaard? LE21? Gallardo? Jorge Jesus? Marcelino (lol)?

From what I've read Pimienta would only replace Setien for the CL. At that time Barca B season will be over. Then he would return to Barca B. I don't believe he's seriously considered to be a first team coach next season at this point but things could obviously change if he would win the CL. And he would have to be a coaching genius or extremely lucky for that to happen with this team.

Anyway, I don't know how much sense another coaching change before the CL games would really make. Maybe we could create a "shock effect" that would last for four games but coaches can't change things over night with little time to prepare and implement their ideas and even less so without knowing the players. Even Pimienta who is already at the club has never worked with any of the current first team members except Puig. And well, he has worked his entire career inside the locker room full of kids willing to listen to him and not entitled, overpaid divas who don't give a s*** about what coaches are telling them. It's a pretty big difference between motivating young, hungry players and unmotivated veterans.