Quique Setien

We need a coach that the players respect.

It's ugly but I can see why Messi would not care to listen to Sarabia. I mean he is a complete nobody

The Real Madrid squad pretty much appointed Zidane themselves.

They respect no one that asks them to work hard. Isn't it clear? These guys want an esier time.

serghei said:

They respect no one that asks them to work hard. Isn't it clear? These guys want an esier time.

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I'm not protecting the players, but it's hard to be convinced by a nobody screaming at you.

That classic saying that players would die for the manager doesn't exist at Barcelona at the moment, why? Because the players don't trust the managers enough to be convinced that they are doing the right thing.

We need an overhaul by someone we can trust. If we'd have a good sporting area it'd been done gradually but Abidal & Co have shown exactly 0 to be trusted with the new Barca.

It was naive to trust Setien and to think that the tactics were lacking, the problems are a lot deeper than that. And maybe we've come to a point that's beyond saving with the current players, which means they need to leave, no matter if Pep returns with Xavi.

I genuinely believe Xavi knows the squad needs overhauling and wants to be the one with the power to make those sporting decisions. I think regardless of being former teammates he would phase some of the core out immediately and because of his illustrious career have the remaining players on board from day 1.

So until 2021 no matter who's in charge, Setien/Valverde/whoever, the situation and problems are still the same.

serghei said:

They respect no one that asks them to work hard. Isn't it clear? These guys want an esier time.

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Given recent history of coaches and the fact that Ernesto "I don't give much importance to physical preparation" Valverde was very popular with sacred cows, while Quique "players need to work harder" Setien has no lobby because he hasn't won any important titles, they'll either need a coach with a laissez faire approach or an authority who has won championships and the Champions League.

Personally, I'd grant them an authority who gives much importance to physical preparation.

Barcelona is not a club where coaches have a lot of power, like Ferguson had in ManU or Wenger in Arsenal. At least we have not been since Pep left and Pep left partly also because The main goals come from board and coaches are judged by 3 things that board thinks are most important - financial success, La Liga title and Messi (and rest of amigos) happiness. Financial success is heavily relying on the stars being in club and playing on everyday bases. As long as board does not give command for coach that it is not time to rebuild, coach will not start experimenting with leaving amigos out of lineups or trying to sell them. Board will also make sales and purchases according to the strategy. If highly marketable star player is achievable (fe Griezmann), he is bought and coach has task of him playing as much as possible.
This is why Valverde was ideal coach for board and for players as well. He did not bother much with rebuilding, as it was never something he was told to do, but was pretty masterful in taking maximum out of the tiring legs and playing in a pragmatic and less-energy consuming way (which of course is not the best for the eye). This is also why board was never likely to get rid of him and why there was really no rush among top managers for the job once he was sacked (of course changing coaches mid-season is always pretty bad idea).
Setien was probably told by board to do what Valverde did, but make the gameplay more attractive. But for sure he was not told to rebuild the squad and do not care about the results (which is what you should do in rebuilding phase). Setien has tried what he could, but probably has noticed by now, that if he wants to have better gameplay, this will result in players not lasting over 60 minutes and potentially losing games, so only way he can get results, is doing what Valverde did, as with old legs you have to play more passively and saving energy, there is just no other way.
When it comes to conflict between players and coach, with current board, there is no way coach would win. Players are more important and they are probably not used to some random guy yelling at them as this is has not really happened to them.
In any case, bringing new coach, unless he is some really badass guy, who is given free role by board to do what is needed (which will never happen), will in long term change absolutely nothing. We just have to endure the last couple of years of amigos and then we will see how long it takes for us to get on top without Messi.

serghei said:

They respect no one that asks them to work hard. Isn't it clear? These guys want an esier time.

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George_Costanza said:

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Haha. That quote will never die.

I love the quote from some Inter guy too. He said if his team would warmup like Barca they would lose every match 6-0.

fergus90 said:

I genuinely believe Xavi knows the squad needs overhauling and wants to be the one with the power to make those sporting decisions. I think regardless of being former teammates he would phase some of the core out immediately and because of his illustrious career have the remaining players on board from day 1.

So until 2021 no matter who's in charge, Setien/Valverde/whoever, the situation and problems are still the same.

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Agreed, I think we should (if we choose Xavi), take the same approach as Chelsea has done with Lampard or what Liverpool did with Klopp.
Give no pressure on results, get rid of stars, who rather be elsewhere (Hazard) or are too old and shaky (D.Luiz, Cahill), bring in talented youngsters from youth teams (Mount, Abraham, James, Hudson-Odoi) or buy young talents (Pulicic, Werner) and give them time to learn and develop, while keeping experienced players in lineup for guidance and balance (Willian, Azpi, Kante). Chelsea has shown good results already now, just imagine if this core gets 2-3 years of gameplay together. Liverpool also struggled for couple of seasons, just to shine if the new core hit their prime years (25-28).
This cannot happen with current board unfortunately, nor with current roster.

LeeRomeno said:

Agreed, I think we should (if we choose Xavi), take the same approach as Chelsea has done with Lampard or what Liverpool did with Klopp.
Give no pressure on results, get rid of stars, who rather be elsewhere (Hazard) or are too old and shaky (D.Luiz, Cahill), bring in talented youngsters from youth teams (Mount, Abraham, James, Hudson-Odoi) or buy young talents (Pulicic, Werner) and give them time to learn and develop, while keeping experienced players in lineup for guidance and balance (Willian, Azpi, Kante). Chelsea has shown good results already now, just imagine if this core gets 2-3 years of gameplay together. Liverpool also struggled for couple of seasons, just to shine if the new core hit their prime years (25-28).
This cannot happen with current board unfortunately, nor with current roster.

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Yes, love that idea and Chelsea is very fun team to watch, while they have their growing pains (Bayern.. )

We are in a damage control timeline, no manager will be good enough until dinosaur gatekeepers leave the club

xXKonan said:

Valverde would have still gotten the boot this summer even if we had won the league and he had not gotten sacked.

His cycle was clearly over at this point.

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That is very true, question is was it right to sake him midseason?
I mean it was wrong to keep him last summer, which I think most should agree with that, but does two wrongs make a right?
He was popular among the squad, won trophies and was top of Liga. You fire him because Abidal was insistent on it since last year (and Abidal really never even tried to work with EV, forcing Malcom on him, refusing to get him a LB so he develop a mediocre talent like Miranda)
But we were not even having a coach to hire. We made the decision, allowed media to know, go to Qatar to try to get Xavi, fails, try with another couple of coach, fail, fire EV, hire Setien. Say in public he was 4th choice, criticize the players, then suddenly we know that social media firm we have a contract with have been turnishing the player.

Ok, covid-19 comes and sweep this nonsense under the rug. You force the sale of Arthur midway in the league, coach forced to talk and he isn't good at it. Results isn't good which is no surprise. Setien might very well not even complete the season as head coach (which would be idiotic if it happens)

Was it worth it?

I know there will be the popular answer " we are on pace to get more points with Setien" but we need to look deeper than this.

Despite board incompetence Barca has been a stable club for so long, no coach was fired midseason for 17 years. Then you set a first. Now we might do it twice, having a 3rd coach in 2020. May be even 4th if Pimienta take over but don't have success in CL (and make no mistake, Napoli has been strong with Gattuso as a coach)

I doubt trophy wise things would have been different, and he would have been a punching bag for fans, allowing the search for new coach to take place in summer under easier circumstances, making transition much easier.

But may be it is for the best, may be now it will be clear to everyone where is the problems.

Well the players seemed to like Valverde. Coincidentally he always played the veterans, didn't force them to work hard and gave them plenty of days off to have nice BBQs with their family.

Honestly Setien is a nobody, and so was Valverde, but i don't think this squad would suddenly be able to fight, run and "die for their manager" no matter if it's another nobody or if it's Pep, Simeone, Klopp, Xavi or Cruyff returning from heaven.

I'm pretty sure any powerful and strong manager would immediately make some big changes to the squad if he was given free reign. So either hire another doormat, have trouble in the locker room or make the cut.

MTL_Barca said:

Well the players seemed to like Valverde. Coincidentally he always played the veterans, didn't force them to work hard and gave them plenty of days off to have nice BBQs with their family.

Honestly Setien is a nobody, and so was Valverde, but i don't think this squad would suddenly be able to fight, and run and "die for their manager" no matter if it's another nobody or if it's Pep, Simeone, Klopp, Xavi or Cruyff returning from heaven.

I'm pretty sure any powerful and strong manager would immediately make some big changes to the squad if he was given free reign. So either hire another doormat, have trouble in the locker room or make the cut.

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True. The players need to go. The management needs to be thrown away. So many changes. Start from zero, like Chelsea.

MTL_Barca said:

Well the players seemed to like Valverde. Coincidentally he always played the veterans, didn't force them to work hard and gave them plenty of days off to have nice BBQs with their family.

Honestly Setien is a nobody, and so was Valverde, but i don't think this squad would suddenly be able to fight, run and "die for their manager" no matter if it's another nobody or if it's Pep, Simeone, Klopp, Xavi or Cruyff returning from heaven.

I'm pretty sure any powerful and strong manager would immediately make some big changes to the squad if he was given free reign. So either hire another doormat, have trouble in the locker room or make the cut.

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Not defending EV, but he definitely was a bigger name than QS and had achieved more