Lautaro Martinez

Messi983

Messi983

Senior Member
We already have a defensive workhorse forward in Griezmann. What we need is someone who will actually score enough goals to replace Suarez and I don't believe Lautaro can do that.

I'm all for getting players who will run and work their ass off in every game but 100m forwards should guarantee at least 30 if not 40 goals every season. You don't pay that much for someone who will maybe score 20 goals in a good season regardless how good he might be defensively. And we'll probably have two forwards like that next season who will struggle to score 40 goals combined. And on the other hand we'll probably still struggle defensively as well because only one of Lautaro and Griezmann will play since Suarez will continue to be unbenchable. First because of his status and second because in all truth we'll still need his goals.
 
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serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Better make sure not to turn this guy into Coutinho 2.0. Coutinho from Liverpool was a top player make no mistake, one of the best under Klopp. It was at Barcelona that his career took a nosedive.

If you buy him, use him in his best position, and don't shoehorn him into a role he doesn't perform well in.
 
Andresito

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
Lautaro is an animal, like Suarez. He's a winner who'll fight for every ball we send into the box and he'll go the extra mile to ensure a win.

In that sense I think he's perfect for us. He can become a leader and a player to fire the others up with his spirit.

BUT as I've said before 100M buys should be reserved for players that are consistently proven at the highest level, like Hazard and Kane. While Lautaro is a good player with good characteristics, he's still a big risk at 111M.
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Rory said:
Bayern with all these incredibly smart transfers and yet one champions league in last couple decades. Not as great as we think.
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We had Messi.

Imagine a world where Barca doesn't have Messi but tons of horrible 100m flops.

Barca won only 1 CL prior Messi.
Bayern had several CL titles.
 
J

jamrock

Senior Member
It's funny how almost everything person on here, including the ones I largely disagree with, are much smarter and have a way better vision of running the club that our board members.

Let's buy this guy, who I have nothing personal against, for another 100M, when we have 3 players in that price range already on our books, on top of Messi, saurez & fati.

Very good idea.
 
R

Rory

Senior Member
BBZ8800 said:
We had Messi.

Imagine a world where Barca doesn't have Messi but tons of horrible 100m flops.

Barca won only 1 CL prior Messi.
Bayern had several CL titles.
Click to expand...

Absolutely messi is majorly responsible for the titles. We're lucky to have him. Not sure which champions league bayern would have won had we not won it though. Maybe 2014/15?
I'm by no means condoning another 100m+ signing, I'd rather make 0 signings than another 100m+ one.
 
BarçaBarça

BarçaBarça

New member
Luftstalag14 said:
The last sentence is certainly true and there are possibly several reasons behind it: (1) The quality and effectiveness of Barca scouts (2) The quality, vision of our sporting director and the role he plays (does he have the authority to sign players he wants or does he have to always be mindful of what the board wants etc.) and (3) the vision of our board and (4) last but not least, we have become a victim of our past success brought by Messi and his fellow old guards to the point that some young players do not want to come join us immediately for fear of not having enough playing time, case in point was Dembele several years ago when he joined Dortmund.
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Good points. As for 4) it will be interesting to follow the praished Liverpools transfer, now that they are world class. Can they still do smart business, when new players know they will be benched?

Luftstalag14 said:
As to Bayern, I think the majority of Bayern's past signings were from Bundesliga and only in the last couple of years they started looking elsewhere (Renato Sanches, Lucas Hernandez, Davies etc.). In Bundesliga Bayern enjoys an absolute monopoly on players and they have the biggest pull on German and Eastern European players, if Bayern shows a serious interest they would get those players 9.9 out of 10 times. Yes, they will face a stiffer competition abroad in the future as they expand their search of talent to other leagues and countries, however I'd imagine the bulk of Bayern's signings will still come from Bundesliga in the near future. In Germany/Bundesliga Bayern doesn't have to spend much at all to get the players they need, it remains to be seen how effective they will be getting players from other markets should they refuse to pay big money, if those players are being pursued by multiple clubs.
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Interesting take: Bayern should mostly be judged by the international players they buy, not German ones. I think I agree with this.

JamDav1982 said:
Barca do scout young players and identify but Barca being linked seems to spur likes of City an Real to offer more money and the club often backs soff.

Yan Couto, Rodrygo, Viniscius Jnr, Gabriel Jesus etc were all linked to Barca and those teams came in.

In recent years money been made from signing younger players like Mina and most likely Todibo who have been identified but not quite good enough for first team.

Pedri and Trincao look like very good finds as well.

MATS, Arthur, Umtiti etc not unknown but Barca in early to get them for good fees.

I think Barca are a bit guilty of wanting immediate success with Messi in team and paying big numbers as for first team players as opposed to taking the time likes of Bayern will. Also more pressure to do that in a league with Real/Atletico in it.

The board set up and elections doesnt help as it can lead to board being short sighted nearer end of term and trying to squeeze out last of what their squad has rather than rebuilding as wont see benefits of it.
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Great points! Yes, it is overlooked when we actually make some promising/great buys. Trincao could be great, we will see. Mats, Arthur, Umtiti were players we snapped before anyone blinked, and that is also a story of our transfers, although rightfully not the dominant one, as the Arda Turans of our transfers. We get things right once in a while, not failure every time.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
BBZ8800 said:
We had Messi.

Imagine a world where Barca doesn't have Messi but tons of horrible 100m flops.

Barca won only 1 CL prior Messi.
Bayern had several CL titles.
Click to expand...

There are many other legends who shared the team with Messi. It's not like he won the CL with Crystal Palace. He won the CL by playing next to the best players in the world, many of them all time greats in their positions.

We're talking about an era of a club, which Messi is a major part of. The domination of Europe started with Ronaldinho, Eto'o & Co actually.

Actually, it has been proven in recent years that Messi needs a world class team around him to win the CL, and a top manager. Messi was the rare piece to make a great team a legendary one. But he is never enough to make a good team a great one. It's been proven.
 
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J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Andresito said:
Lautaro is an animal, like Suarez. He's a winner who'll fight for every ball we send into the box and he'll go the extra mile to ensure a win.

In that sense I think he's perfect for us. He can become a leader and a player to fire the others up with his spirit.

BUT as I've said before 100M buys should be reserved for players that are consistently proven at the highest level, like Hazard and Kane. While Lautaro is a good player with good characteristics, he's still a big risk at 111M.
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Would never get Kane or Hazard for 100m even in this market.

Hazard went for over that at not far off 29 and a year left on contract.

Lautro could well be worth 111m. I like him and think he ticks most boxes but needs to get better on his finishing. Granted others may have seen more and disagree.

The issue is more spending it now when other areas need strengthened.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
The solution is to do what Bayern did with Davies. You need to be able to find 2-3 players who are worth much more than you are paying, because you can't have the money to only sign expensive players.

We didn't do that in a long time. We always pay more than the players are worth, but we almost never get players for much less than their real value is. Bayern did this with quite a few players.

Top teams are built with very expensive star players + great finds + academy players + good players who are reasonably priced and become great in a short time.

We are so crap at signing players that even the star, expensive players, turn out to be not so great. :lol: Forget about the other, more complicated, objectives.

We simply lack competent management. We don't lack money, and I doubt we lack scouters. We lack the guys who know how to best use the great resources we have.
 
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Slevinn

Slevinn

Senior Member
If you want to bring up Liverpool as an example then also post what they did with the Suarez money.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Slevinn said:
If you want to bring up Liverpool as an example then also post what they did with the Suarez money.
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Which is why you need a top manager, which is what I'm saying for years. It isn't a coincidence that their transfers started to work out after Klopp joined. When you have a manager who knows what is doing, and the kind of football he wants to play, the profile of players that is needed becomes more clear. Once you sign players who fit the football you want to play, things start to click.
 
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