Pretty good post by [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]. But shy guys with soft personalities can also make it. They just need more work and more coaching, and sometimes the elite clubs don't have neither the patience, nor the right men in charge to really guide these players and help them to develop properly.
Thanks.
Ok, I agree. It is not impossible, but it is WAY HARDER.
Like Messi the goat...
BBZ has a point, but you don t need or want 11 loud mouth alphas in Barca. That would be destructive.
What you need is the right balance. Introverts are often different people on the field and i think this goes for Dembele 2.
This is a thing which I don't like.
People always mention Messi or Xavi as examples of shier guys who turned into a world class.
But:
Messi was the most gifted footballer ever.
So, he made it INSPITE of being shy. Not because of it.
Imagine if Messi had an average talent:
Let's say like Pedro.
So, imagine Messi with Pedro's talent, with Messi's physique, with Messi's IQ and with Messi's shy personality.
That guy would play for Celta or Valencia as a winger, not winning multiple Ballon D ors.
Further, regarding 11 alphas, there is one more thing.
Attackers, wingers in 433 and CAMs are usually guys from whom you expect "things to happen".
So, a winger is supposed to provoke things, create things, be brave for risky passes, dribbles and shots.
On the other hand, take a pivot or a RB.
Pivot's main duty (in all clubs except Barca) is to defend.
So, for a winger or a CAM, you will need to create, force and invent things all the time.
While a RB or pivot=will have to PREVENT you from doing what you (a winger) planned to do.
So, a winger or a CAM needs to be creative and proactive.
While a defensive guy needs to be a good reader and reactive.
I know, I am mixing a lot of different things in these comparisons, but to make it simple: the more attacking player you are, the more "alpha" you'll need to be.
When I talk about leaders, I am not talking only about being captains.
But about that part: we are losing 0:1 in the 80th minute and someone needs to create something.
Will you rely more on a RB and pivot to do something in crucial moments and to take the responsibility (and to be brave enough to try it 3-4 times in a row even if they'll fail), or will you rely on your key winger/Cam to take the responsibility in tough moments and to create something?
In that example, in the 80th minute of a CL's semis, when you are losing, this is again why you need:
1. a winger who is brave
2. a winger who is mentally strong
3. a winger who won't sulk when he will miss 2 shots in a row
4. a winger who won't sulk in general because we are losing and facing elimination
So, yes, I am mixing a lot of personality traits, but tbh, a lot of those traits go hand in hand.
Ronaldinho:
1. he was brave
2. he wasn't afraid to take the responsibility
3. he wasn't losing head if we were losing 0:1
4. he wasn't afraid to try again even if he made 2 errors in a row in the 88th minute
5. he was also a leader on top of all, both on a field in attack, and as a captain who can yell and motivate his teammates
Henry during his career. Didn't he have exactly the same traits mentioned above, as Ronaldinho?
Zlatan, more or less. Didn't he have exactly the same traits, more or less?
CR7, doesn't he have the same traits, plus too huge ego?
So, again imo, those traits usually come together.
Also, I tried to remember majority of top class attackers in the last 20-30 years, and I will simplify my list on:
1. very brave/leaders/somewhat cocky guys
2. normal guys
3. somewhat shy and too nice guys as persons
And this is my personal estimation of majority of top attackers in the last 30 years:
1. very brave/leaders/somewhat cocky guys/I am the best attitude: Romario, Stoichkov, Kluivert, Vieri, Henry, Trezeguet, Batistuta, Totti, Crespo, Ruud, Rooney, Ronaldinho, Etoo, Drogba, Robben, Ribery, Muller, Mandzukic, Mario Gomes, Lewandowski, Diego Costa, Neymar, Suarez, CR7, Bale, Griezmann, Firmino, Aguero
2. normal guys=Del Piero, Shevchenko, Rivaldo, Torres, Higuain
3. somewhat shy and too nice guys as persons, lacking that "cocky-leadership-I am better than you" spark= Raul, Morientes, Kaka, Owen
** This is my subjective estimation, others will rate some players differently.
But imo, the point stands that majority of attackers, Cams and wingers (as explained above=players who need to be proactive, take risks, make dribbles/assists/goals in key moments) are in the majority of cases=guys who's personality is closer to that dominant/leadership/somewhat cocky side.
Ok, there were some shy and nice guys on this list like Kaka, Raul and Owen.
But then, none of them had low IQ and all of them were 120% professionals, totally devoted to sport and a healthy lives.
In the case of Dembele: his personality is more like a shy personality. He isn't too brightest. And has issues in terms of being motivated and professional.
He has a point in that world class attacking stars usually have a bold personality. To be a true leader you kind of have to see yourself as superior to others. That kind of arrogance is an asset when it is backed with talent and good work ethic. But there are exceptions all the time.
True.
But imo, those exceptions are rare (those introverts and too shy guys who have made it as top attackers).
And plus, with those shy guys, they were very good in all other areas like IQ, physique, being injury free, being professionals.
Being an introvert doesn t mean one is not bold or arrogant. You re mixing different aspect of psychology.
And you certainly don t have to be a leader to be an awesome attacker. Also, the leader is not someone who see himself as superior. Arrogance and leadership are 2 different things.
As explained above, majority of those traits usually come together.
Also, one more thing, I have been talking about that a lot of times: guys who have started to follow Barca during Pep are not seeing the real picture.
Our team from that era was a unique football team.
And I would dare to say: the nicest team ever, with the most humble, shy and introvert guys.
But, that worked (ONLY) because we had Messi and Xavi.
Imagine Pep's Barca with Aguero instead of Messi and with Gundogan/David Silva instead of Messi.
Do you think that they would win 6 titles in one season? Lol, I don't.
So, eternal replies how: Messi is shy and how Xavi is shy. Well, Messi was the most talented footballer ever and he made it INSPITE of being shy.
Xavi was an exorcist, the programmer, Mr TikiTaka himself, a guy who could have predicted 5-6 moves in the future.
So, imo, instead of focusing on Pep's Barca in terms of mental and personality traits, maybe we should look at a larger sample of successful teams and players in the last 20, 30 or 50 years.
Also, I can't put my finger just on one trait.
It is a mixture of personality traits.
But it is somewhat easy to spot it: who "has" it and who doesn't. By the way how they play, how they make decisions, how they react in tough situations, through their body language and even through their celebrations where you can sense some cockiness, bravery, confidence, attitude, passion. I personally don't see too much of that in Dembele's plays, moves, gestures and body language.
Here are some examples:
Totti and his goals and celebrations. You can see a mixture of bravery, motivation, passion, confidence, cockiness, confident body language. Paired with an insane talent, of course.
Batistuta's hattrick vs Milan.
Take a look at his world class goals, cocky celebrations, confident look in his eyes, his body language. And also take a look at his 3rd goal.
When you are as confident as Batigol, you can attempt such a crazy free kick and not care too much whether you will kill somebody with your shot.
This is not a joke. He could have seriously killed someone with that shot, lol.
Or Ruud and his cocky revenge vs Andorra:
Again, top attackers are imo similar to rockstars.
Those are not normal people.
You need to be one of a kind.
You need to be extremely talented, but also brave. And have skills to entertain millions of people. And don't react to fouls, insults, whistles, provocations, bad referees.
When you work in the office, it is perfectly fine to be a normal or a shy guy.
But for being Barca's attacker and if you want to lead your team to a CL glory, in majority of cases, you will need a special personality, extremely motivated, passionate, brave, extremely confident, proactive.
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]
I don't think from the evidence we have we are in a position to say that Dembele has 'low' or no tactical IQ..
Unless you can elaborate where you base your conclusion, it looks kind of arbitrary..
I am an amateur.
I love to watch random people everywhere around me in random every day situations and analyze their body language, reactions, IQ, calmness in tricky situations etc.
From what we have seen in the last 2 years from Dembele in interviews, on field, with some injuries, unprofessional behavior, body language, my personal estimation is that he is among players with the lowest IQ in our team.
One of the most talented players in a team, and one of players with the lowest IQ.
