Ernesto Valverde - V1

Ghostmaster · Mar 17, 2018

Luftstalag14 said:
Yes we were dominated by Chelsea at times, certainly not for the duration of the entire game but there were many moments, especially for around 10-15 minutes in the second half it was all Chelsea. If it wasn't for a combination of our good defending, their poor finishing and bad luck on their part we would have conceded. To me it felt like the first half of the el Clasico game last fall. Whether it was intentional or not on our part, I don't know, but I didn't like it at all, too risky. To me it all speaks to how lackluster how midfield is.

We can't always rely on luck (Chelsea hit the post 4 times), especially when playing better teams.

Going all out attack when you 2-0 up might be riskier, you give them more space on counters. Remember what happened in PSG-RM game, PSG played well, it was 1-1 and they went for more goals and then 2 counters and the tie is done.

Trickykid · Mar 17, 2018

serghei said:
Let's hope Messi will be pumped and play as brilliant as he's done vs Chelsea all the way through, so that you won't find out what i already know. Because some individual brilliant stuff by Messi and some screwing up on Chelsea's part of what were really dangerous actions in our third masked the issues we have.

Jesus Christ, what's with the arrogance, Sergei?

JamDav1982 · Mar 17, 2018

Trickykid said:
Jesus Christ, what's with the arrogance, Sergei?

Arrogance based on no actual predictions to judge against.

Even then if Barca get done by City who have more of ball it doesnt change these past games.

Anything can happen from here amongst the top sides.

Luftstalag14 · Mar 17, 2018

Ghostmaster said:
Going all out attack when you 2-0 up might be riskier, you give them more space on counters. Remember what happened in PSG-RM game, PSG played well, it was 1-1 and they went for more goals and then 2 counters and the tie is done.

I can't dispute that and I am all for flexibility; but a the same time, our philosophy of retaining possession is due to the belief that when we have the ball the opponent would have fewer opportunities to attack and cause us troubles. And I subscribe to the notion that the best defense is offense. It is just that there this kind of play/strategy left too many nail-biting moments to my liking.Even when we played Eibar (no disrepect to Eibar and their fans) we had too many moments like that. Against better teams they might make us pay.

Trickykid · Mar 17, 2018

JamDav1982 said:
Arrogance based on no actual predictions to judge against.

Even then if Barca get done by City who have more of ball it doesnt change these past games.

Anything can happen from here amongst the top sides.

Yeah, and when/if we eventually lose, lots of people will have a field day here...

Luftstalag14 · Mar 17, 2018

Trickykid said:
Yeah, and when/if we eventually lose, lots of people will have a field day here...

No, I don't think the silly joy of telling people "I told you so..." could compensate even 1% of the pain caused by that...

Trickykid · Mar 17, 2018

Luftstalag14 said:
No, I don't think the silly joy of telling people "I told you so..." could compensate even 1% of the pain caused by that...

It's quite apparent that that sentiment isn't shared by quite few people in here.

Blaugrana Bull said:
We basically put the tie to bed with two goals after thirty minutes. Added a third one after Chelsea had strong minutes to avoid the end of their season in Europe. We were not dominated at all. Chelsea did not have bad performances against us, especially not at Stamford Bridge, but we were the better team and won advanced comfortably.

1st game in London is a game where you could criticize Valverde btw. Did not like his idea to play Paulinho on the wing where he is useless. Dembele was not in rhythm like he is now but should have probably started that game. Anyway I mentioned I do not like everything Valverde does but the things people in here come up with it...

Blaugrana Bull said:
How can somebody be unhappy with the Atletico game btw?
First of all the game overall was great. Two teams with tactically sound managers who showed their skills, high intensity throughout and the amount of mistakes shown was really small.
We dominated that game in the first half like I have rarely seen another team being able to against Atletico. And in the second half it was normal that they were going for goal and we had to absorb pressure. It was their last chance to win the league. You know the mindset of a Simeone team, they are ready to fight until death and do you really think any team could dominate with ease in such a situation? Not to mention Simeone made three attacking subs but still not managed to create one single big chance in the process. In contrast we should have put the game to bed earlier with more precision in the final third.

I am not in awe with Valverde's player choices and approaches in some matches but look at the big picture.
We are THE team in Europe right now. ManCity might look better and I like to watch them too but they crashed out against Wigan in the FA Cup which is embarrassing tbh. The only game we lost so far in the whole freaking season was meaningless because we made up for it a week later. And Bayern has not faced a real test yet imo.
Last season our results were random. PSG destroyed us and we answered with the biggest comeback ever. Usually a performance like that should give you an unstoppable boost and many thought we would go on and win CL after the 6:1 only to be dominated by Juve.
We made a big step compared to last season and that is after losing Neymar and getting basically no replacement for him because Dembele has been injured so far and Coutinho is not able to play in CL. In the meantime La Liga is basically secured at the beginning of March, we should really win Copa and with our lucky draw in CL (finally) we will finally be in another semi final.

Spot on, the lot of it.

Neymessi · Mar 17, 2018

JamDav1982 said:
Haha what are you on about now?

Ahh I see you are joining the gang that think Barca have to win the treble or you are proved correct.

In with some notable names in that gang.

There you go with the cliched statement that we are all just spoiled fans. The win against chelsea was mainly due to luck and after that messi and after that the rest. Over 180 min overall they were the better team. And after getting past like this against a side thats underperforming the whole season, you expect us to not be skeptical? Sorry but this chelsea 4-1 scoreline isn't fooling me even though most of you have convinced yourself it was Ev's masterplan all along.

If we play good and get eliminated even at quarters and win domestic double then there will be no EV 'haters' and we spoiled fans wouldn't be mad at him. If we lose to bayern/city by a 1/2 goal margin in a really close match I wouldn't mind either but playing not so good football in all 3 competitions with messi carrying us alone to wherever we go in CL and losing horribly to a top side but still winning winning domestic double, he will be criticised for his style.

tacticvarium · Mar 17, 2018

I understand that part of the reason that Valverde playing pragmatic football against competitive teams is due the quality or depth of our current midfielders but at the same time he also doesn't seem to have stubborn philosophy about how a team should play. He is closer to Lucho, Mourinho in that sense than Pep or Bielsa. Especially in Barça, a manager needs to have that stubbornness about how the team should win and that's where Valverde has to improve next season.

MessiCam · Mar 17, 2018

Ghostmaster said:
Going all out attack when you 2-0 up might be riskier, you give them more space on counters. Remember what happened in PSG-RM game, PSG played well, it was 1-1 and they went for more goals and then 2 counters and the tie is done.

You don’t go all out attack. You defend with the ball... As it happens though our central midfield was overrun by Chelsea. Fàbregas and Kanté, especially, were bypassing Rakitic and Busquets at will and finding Willian. It took Paulinho coming on to put a stop to it by pocketing Willian.

Luftstalag14 said:
I can't dispute that and I am all for flexibility; but a the same time, our philosophy of retaining possession is due to the belief that when we have the ball the opponent would have fewer opportunities to attack and cause us troubles. And I subscribe to the notion that the best defense is offense. It is just that there this kind of play/strategy left too many nail-biting moments to my liking.Even when we played Eibar (no disrepect to Eibar and their fans) we had too many moments like that. Against better teams they might make us pay.

Eibar completely overran our midfield too until they had a player sent off for stupidity.

JamDav1982 · Mar 17, 2018

MessiCam said:
You don’t go all out attack. You defend with the ball... As it happens though our central midfield was overrun by Chelsea. Fàbregas and Kanté, especially, were bypassing Rakitic and Busquets at will and finding Willian. It took Paulinho coming on to put a stop to it by pocketing Willian.

By defending with the ball the team has to come further up the park and leaves team more exposed to counter attacks which were the biggest threat coming from Chelsea.

It is not as if Barca just gave them ball and sat on edge of area. Barca had more of the ball and had more attempts on target.

Some of it was frustrating to watch and I dont like the idea of Messi/Suarez staying up park so much but Barca did what they needed to in the match at that time.

MessiCam · Mar 17, 2018

JamDav1982 said:
By defending with the ball the team has to come further up the park and leaves team more exposed to counter attacks which were the biggest threat coming from Chelsea.

It is not as if Barca just gave them ball and sat on edge of area. Barca had more of the ball and had more attempts on target.

Some of it was frustrating to watch and I dont like the idea of Messi/Suarez staying up park so much but Barca did what they needed to in the match at that time.

No. You move the ball around in midfield while they chase shadows as against Juventus that you speak so highly of. And no, in the second half Chelsea had more possession, more passes and better accuracy with those passes than us.

To put into perspective. At the Camp Nou, we had 33 defensive actions as opposed to 17 for them. That’s nearly twice as many...

You could argue to that we controlled the game without the ball but I didn’t get that feeling. I had that feeling against Madrid because their outlet, Kroos, was Paulinho’d.

Edit: I also feel our inability to control games in midfield is a direct result of playing this double pivot nonsense. It’s a body less in the centre of the park... Any double pivot system is really not conducive to dominating the ball. And that’s football 101.

JamDav1982 · Mar 17, 2018

MessiCam said:
No. You move the ball around in midfield while they chase shadows as against Juventus that you speak so highly of. And no, in the second half Chelsea had more possession, more passes and better accuracy with those passes than us.

To put into perspective. At the Camp Nou, we had 33 defensive actions as opposed to 17 for them. That’s nearly twice as many...

You could argue to that we controlled the game without the ball but I didn’t get that feeling. I had that feeling against Madrid because their outlet, Kroos, was Paulinho’d.

No. You dont just 'move the ball around midfield' and why are you looking to replicate and approach that you seen as 'spineless' v Juve?

Again you are breaking down halfs and ignoring the game as a whole... Barca had more of the ball and more shots on target.

MessiCam · Mar 17, 2018

JamDav1982 said:
No. You dont just 'move the ball around midfield' and why are you looking to replicate and approach that you seen as 'spineless' v Juve?

Again you are breaking down halfs and ignoring the game as a whole... Barca had more of the ball and more shots on target.

Because we had a lead already so all you need to do is keep the ball away from them. The game wasn’t deadlocked at 0 - 0. That’s why I say it was spineless and bereft of audacity because he went there not to lose instead of win in what was basically a dead rubber. I’m sure you understand the difference.

And yes I am breaking the game down in half’s because after we established the lead and Chelsea started playing we were second best. By some distance too. At 2 - 0 the game wasn’t safe enough to adopt such tactics because if they score 2 we’re out on away goals.

People talk of Messi’s brilliance while I think it was Umtiti who got us through this one. He was that good.

JamDav1982 · Mar 17, 2018

MessiCam said:
Because we had a lead already so all you need to do is keep the ball away from them. The game wasn’t deadlocked at 0 - 0. That’s why I say it was spineless and bereft of audacity because he went there not to lose instead of win I what was basically a dead rubber. I’m sure you understand the difference.

And yes I am breaking the game down in half’s because after we established the lead and Chelsea started playing we were second best. By some distance too. At 2 - 0 the game wasn’t safe enough to adopt such tactics because if they score 2 we’re out on away goals.

People talk of Messi’s brilliance while I think it was Umtiti who got us through this one. He was that good.

Totally different game and Chelsea would have loved Barca to start trying to play the ball about midfield with a higher line as they were desperate and trying to press high and get the ball forward quickly.

Barca dont even have the players on the pitch to go and try to do that anyway.

Over the 90 mins Barca had more of ball and more chances and after that sitting deeper to stop counters was correct thing to do.

'The game wasnt safe enough' yet you want Barca to play in a riskier way similar to how did in first leg when game was more in Chelseas favour.

Umtiti was that good because he played more or less as a penalty box defender sitting deeper. Something he wouldnt have been in your scenario.

Barca played it the right way even if could be a lot better.

Ernesto Valverde - V1

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