Ernesto Valverde - V1

George_Costanza said:

"Barca are happy to sit back and keep things tight, waiting for the perfect moment to exploit a tiring opponent"

Mourinho would be so proud of this team

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George Costanza always speaks the truth.

What bollocks. Are we a bus parking team now? In that case just get rid of Valverde and get the master bus driver Mourinho as the coach who'll lead us to epic snoozefests like he's doing with Man U. Just mind boggling how ppl get paid to write this shite.

Are there any pages where I can compare how many chances are created against us this compared to previous seasons?

Cule4life said:

George Costanza always speaks the truth.

What bollocks. Are we a bus parking team now? In that case just get rid of Valverde and get the master bus driver Mourinho as the coach who'll lead us to epic snoozefests like he's doing with Man U. Just mind boggling how ppl get paid to write this shite.

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The only difference to Mourinho is we still dominate the possession. Funny that you mentioned snoozefest, cuz I took a nap in few of our games this season and it never happened before.

George_Costanza said:

The only difference to Mourinho is we still dominate the possession. Funny that you mentioned snoozefest, cuz I took a nap in few of our games this season and it never happened before.

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Off-topic what's going on with constanza's right hand in ur avatar?

Cule4life said:

Off-topic what's going on with constanza's right hand in ur avatar?

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what's wrong with my right hand?

George_Costanza said:

what's wrong with my right hand?

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You better hope fuck all or fun times are over for little George.

George_Costanza said:

what's wrong with my right hand?

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If you're don't know the answer its already too late

JamDav1982 said:

You better hope fuck all or fun times are over for little George.

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This 4-4-2 vs 4-3-3 argument won't rest so here is my take on it.

According to [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] you can't play a 3 man midfield of Iniesta, Busquets and Rakitic because they're too slow but these very same players play in his workhorse 4-4-2 in addition to either Paulinho or Gomes, Both turtles in their own right. And when you add pace to the 4-4-2 with wide midfielders like Coutinho and Dembélé you're left with something akin to a 4-2-3-1 meaning you now only play with 2 turtle midfielders which is even more of a disaster than playing with 3 on paper.

The 3 man midfield or the 4 man midfield is really not the problem. It never was in a possession based team. The problem is and always has been shoehorning Suárez and Messi into the same 11. They can't coexist centrally without affecting the rest of the team balance wise. Suárez is also not a target man so playing him as a lone striker is not that great of an idea. His touch is also not good and he is offside 90% of the time due to him having lost some pace.

Attack wise in the workhorse 4-4-2/4-2-3-1, as against Chelsea and Getafe, Suárez is also inevitably left isolated due to Messi dropping deep to find space and to provide the creativity because in said system Iniesta is too wide and neither of Busquets, Rakitic or Paulinho possess the necessary creativity in the final third to allow Messi more time up front with Suárez. Against poorer teams it might work...

The only working solution would be to switch to a 3 man defence and play the Cruyff style 3-4-3 Diamond or to drop one of Messi or Suárez.

--- Pique ------- Umtiti ----- Vermaelen ---
---- Rakitic ---- Busquets ---- Iniesta ----
------------------- Messi ---------------------
---- Dembélé --- Suárez --- Coutinho ----

In a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 one of Messi or Suárez have to sit out. In a 4-4-2 you play Paco instead of Messi because he is much more of a target man and you actually play with 2 strikers as you're supposed to and in a 4-3-3 you flank Messi with Coutinho and Dembélé.

But truth of the matter is that it can't continue like this. The Messi/Suárez problem has been going on for too long and it is hurting the team.

In your 3-4-3, there is no single player until defence who can defend, rakitic is oksy, but dembele, suarez, messi? Please, every good counter attacking team would expose barcelona

vlad said:

In your 3-4-3, there is no single player until defence who can defend, rakitic is oksy, but dembele, suarez, messi? Please, every good counter attacking team would expose barcelona

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How is it any different to this?

-- Roberto -- Pique -- Umtiti -- Alba --
-Paulinho - Rakitic - Busquets - Iniesta-
---------- Messi ------- Suarez ---------

or this?

-- Roberto -- Pique -- Umtiti -- Alba --
------- Busquets ------- Rakitic --------
- Dembéle ------ Messi ------ Iniesta -
----------------- Suarez ----------------

It's the same players... Just a centre back more and no Alba and Roberto whom are more attacking players in any event.

But anyway, that wasn't the point of the post. The point of the post was to show you the type of issues shoehorning Suárez and Messi into the same 11 provides.

Edit: Or maybe Barcelona should just play with defenders everywhere except in attack... That's what you want is it not?

Or show me your balanced 11 with Suárez and Messi in the team.

MessiCam said:

But truth of the matter is that it can't continue like this. The Messi/Suárez problem has been going on for too long and it is hurting the team.

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Maybe I do not understand correctly.
Are you saying that there is a possibility (=it is better for the team, the team would work better) , to leave Messi on the bench to make space for others players ?
.

MagIX said:

Maybe I do not understand correctly.
Are you saying that there is a possibility (=it is better for the team, the team would work better) , to leave Messi on the bench to make space for others players ?
.

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One of Messi or Suárez.

If you want to play 4-4-2 then you drop Messi and play Suárez and Paco. If you want to play 4-3-3 then you drop Suárez and flank Messi with wingers.

I made this clear in my initial post...

In a 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 one of Messi or Suárez have to sit out. In a 4-4-2 you play Paco instead of Messi because he is much more of a target man and you actually play with 2 strikers as you're supposed to and in a 4-3-3 you flank Messi with Coutinho and Dembélé.

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MessiCam said:

One of Messi or Suárez.

If you want to play 4-4-2 then you drop Messi and play Suárez and Paco. If you want to play 4-3-3 then you drop Suárez and flank Messi with wingers.

I made this clear in my initial post...

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ok.
For me there are 0% possibilities to leave Messi on the bench.

MagIX said:

ok.
For me there are 0% possibilities to leave Messi on the bench.

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Well there's just as much chance that Valverde drops Suárez so we end up with the same problems that Lucho had. If Messi or Suarez go to the wing and stay there then it's fine but Valverde's made it clear that both are to play through the centre.

Look at the pass maps and average positions on the previous page. All that's happened is that the problem has shifted from the right flank to the left irrespective of formation because one midfielder is always forced wide. In Valverde's 4-4-2 it's almost always Iniesta or Coutinho.

The best balance the team had was when Suarez was playing as a left inside forward in a 4-3-3 but it stripped him of his quality in front of goal.



Look at the midfield. Both Iniesta and Rakitic central enough. Only problem is Suarez...

But something has got to give. We just can't continue like this... It's madness.

You can post everything you want, for me an 11 without Messi does not exist. Just thinking about leaving out Messi goes beyond any logic. I don't think that there is a coach in the world who would leave Messi on the bench to make room for any other player. For me Messi is irremovable.
If you tell me to leave out Suarez, ok, we can discuss
But only thinking, only see a possibility about leaving Messi on the bench, not having Messi in an ideal 11 is totally sick and crazy, goes beyond any human understanding.