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Thread: Tennis

  1. #1471
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    Not to put down Federer, but now that Rafa also has 20 slams, and leads Roger in all time h2h matches (16:24), it's hard to call Federer the goat
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  2. #1472
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    how is nadal the goat? dude won most of his trophies on clay

    not as well rounded as federer or djokovic

  3. #1473
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaviniesta View Post
    how is nadal the goat? dude won most of his trophies on clay

    not as well rounded as federer or djokovic
    Beat Fed and Djoker on their favorite surfaces in their prime...Wim 2008, AO 2009, US Open 2013 etc.

    Can't say the same the other way around. Maybe for Djoker, but certainly not Fed.

  4. #1474
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    I'm a Federer fan personally, but I wouldn't say he's greater than either Nadal or Djokovic. All of them are Tier 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    Beat Fed and Djoker on their favorite surfaces in their prime...Wim 2008, AO 2009, US Open 2013 etc.

    Can't say the same the other way around. Maybe for Djoker, but certainly not Fed.
    There are a lot of arguments for all 3.

    Djokovic has positive h2h with both. Federer has the best records on 2 / 4 slams compared with Nadal and Djokovic. Nadal is the most dominant on his surface, but he's weaker than Federer and Djokovic on all other surfaces, be it hards, grass or indoor (World Tour Finals).

    Depends on which way you spin it.
    Last edited by serghei; 11th October 2020 at 07:45 PM.

  5. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    I'm a Federer fan personally, but I wouldn't say he's greater than either Nadal or Djokovic. All of them are Tier 1.



    There are a lot of arguments for all 3.

    Djokovic has positive h2h with both. Federer has the best records on 2 / 4 slams compared with Nadal and Djokovic. Nadal is the most dominant on his surface, but he's weaker than Federer and Djokovic on all other surfaces, be it hards, grass or indoor (World Tour Finals).

    Depends on which way you spin it.
    You spun it just enough to bring them level lol.

    Nadal has better H2H against both in GS meetings, especially finals. Yes, that's skewed by his FO dominance but look at how he crept up on Fed in Wimbledon when Fed was unbeatable there and Nadal was what, 20-22?. 4 setter, 5 setter, and then a W in 2008. And followed it up with AO 2009 when no one else outside Djoker could beat Fed on hard courts.

    To me, such moments are decisive and I haven't seen a counter from Fed. Djoker yes (I was very impressed how he bullied Nadal in 2011-2012 but then Nadal repeated the favor in 2013).
    Last edited by KingLeo10; 11th October 2020 at 07:50 PM.

  6. #1476
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    Nadal pretty much took a piss on Djokovic today dawgs
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  7. #1477
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    Also hats off to Stan Wawrinka who managed to win an AO and a FO in Djokovic and Nadal era.

    Quote Originally Posted by catalinutzR80 View Post
    Nadal pretty much took a piss on Djokovic today dawgs
    Djokovic beat Nadal badly in the AO final this year as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    You spun it just enough to bring them level lol.

    Nadal has better H2H against both in GS meetings, especially finals. Yes, that's skewed by his FO dominance but look at how he crept up on Fed in Wimbledon when Fed was unbeatable there and Nadal was what, 20-22?. 4 setter, 5 setter, and then a W in 2008. And followed it up with AO 2009 when no one else outside Djoker could beat Fed on hard courts.

    To me, such moments are decisive.
    Sorry, but I don't see any having a clear edge. Even their slams distribution shows that. Who is better depends on where the match is played. Nadal has 1 AO and 0 World Tour Finals (fast hard court + indoor hard court - Nadal's worst playing conditions), Djokovic has 8 AOs and 5WTF, Federer has 7 AOs and 6 WTF for example.

    Nadal - Djokovic titles on Djokovic's favorite sourface 1 - 13.

    Nadal - Federer titles on Federer's favorite sourfaces 3 - 21.
    Last edited by serghei; 11th October 2020 at 07:54 PM.

  8. #1478
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Also hats off to Stan Wawrinka who managed to win an AO and a FO in Djokovic and Nadal era.



    Djokovic beat Nadal badly in the AO final this year as well.



    Sorry, but I don't see any having a clear edge. Even their slams shows that. Who is better depends on where the match it is played. Nadal has 1 AO (fast hard court), Djokovic has 8, Federer has 7 for example.
    My point isn't that Nadal is better on all surfaces or even better all around as a player than either.

    It's rather that he's come up biggest in the most decisive moments in their rivalries across 15 years. Djoker a very close second and Fed not near the 2 in this (despite being by far the most talented).

  9. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    My point isn't that Nadal is better on all surfaces or even better all around as a player than either.

    It's rather that he's come up biggest in the most decisive moments in their rivalries across 15 years. Djoker a very close second and Fed not near the 2 in this (despite being by far the most talented).
    Yes, but it is a flawed argument imo. Because Nadal was out before Djokovic / Federer many times in big tournaments favoring those two (easy to see what are those -> fast HC, indoor hard, grass). By getting beat repeatedly by journeymen at Wimbledon for instance. And so on.

    Whereas Federer and Djokovic played Nadal a huge number of times on clay.

  10. #1480
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Yes, but it is a flawed argument imo. Because Nadal was out before Djokovic / Federer many times. By getting beat repeatedly by journeymen at Wimbledon for instance. And so on.
    You seem to have different standards of evaluation when it comes to football and tennis, then. Nadal isn't competing with journeymen, he's competing with these 2 legends. Think of matches between these 3 as CL KO competition. And it's not like he's only faced them 2 times and come out lucky 2 times or something...something like 30 GS meetings between him and Fed and Djoker. It's a decent enough sample size.

  11. #1481
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingLeo10 View Post
    You seem to have different standards of evaluation when it comes to football and tennis, then. Nadal isn't competing with journeymen, he's competing with these 2 legends. Think of matches between these 3 as CL KO competition. And it's not like he's only faced them 2 times and come out lucky 2 times or something...something like 30 GS meetings between him and Fed and Djoker. It's a decent enough sample size.
    I don't know man, to have a fair representation, you'd have to have some consistency in terms of playing conditions. Check how many of those games in slams were played on Rafa's favorite surface.

    30 GS doesn't tell me anything, because tennis is dependent on surface to a huge degree. It's not like football. You put Nadal to play 60% of those 30 matches against Djokovic on the fast hards in Australia and he'd have a bad record.

    Just curious, did Nadal ever beat Nole at AO? Don't think so.
    Last edited by serghei; 11th October 2020 at 08:02 PM.

  12. #1482
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    Btw, I'm not saying Nadal is not greater than Federer, or Djokovic, just that it is not clear. Much like Messi and Ronaldo. There are multiple arguments for all. Personally, in terms of preference, I'm with Messi and Federer, but it's purely an aesthetic choice.

  13. #1483
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarcaGirl View Post
    Not to put down Federer, but now that Rafa also has 20 slams, and leads Roger in all time h2h matches (16:24), it's hard to call Federer the goat
    Tennis won't have a clear cut GOAT, a lot of sports don't.

    Classy message from Federer congratulating Nadal with this achievement.

    Its clear these 2 have a lot of respect for eachother, great to see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitchell1978 View Post
    Tennis won't have a clear cut GOAT, a lot of sports don't.

    Classy message from Federer congratulating Nadal with this achievement.

    Its clear these 2 have a lot of respect for eachother, great to see.
    Meanwhile, MJ reacted to Lebron's 2016 title by making a 10 part documentary to show how great he was.

  15. #1485
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    For me Federer is still the GOAT and I'm a huge Nadal fan. There is more than Grand slams(slightly) when deciding who's the greatest. Federer's whole body of work is still more impressive than Nadal's, such as weeks at no1, GS finals in a row, ATP Masters finals won, overall titles won, overall more GS quarter-final/sf. However 1 more GS for Nadal(2 at worst) than Federer and it's out of the question and it's Nadal. There are achievements of Nadal that Federer won't ever touch and what is the most impressive achievement in the sport and one of the all time greatest feats of a sportsman and that is absolutely dominating a surface like Rafa is doing on clay. We came to a point where we realize that other GOAT candidates like Federer and Djokovic should count themselves lucky to have even won it once. There are very few sportsman out there doing what Nadal has done in winning RG in such fashion. Just look over the stats over the years and marvel. Also doing it in Federer's backyard at the peak of his powers is no small feat. That 2008 Wimbledon final is still considered by many the best match of tennis ever played and Nadal(dubbed only a claycourter at the time) took it from under the swiss' nose.

    Also the disparity between surfaces in titles is not that great as some like to point out, considering that there are 2 slams on hard courts while there is only 1 one Clay and 1 on Grass.

    Nadal has 7 GS titles outside his best surface, Federer has 12 and Djokovic has 6. Federer here comes clearly ahead for sure, but hearing the myth that Nadal is too one dimensional is tiring and is a fucking stupid opinion. You'd think he has one title on grass and one on hard court and that is it. In fact both Federer and Djokovic have only one on clay while Nadal has multiple on both hard courts and grass. Who's one dimensional now? I kid, I kid but yeah, only ignorant cretins are still peddling that non sense.

    Anyway let's wait see how it goes because Djokovic still has a chance to eclipse them both. Don't think Federer has more in the tank,1 or 2 tops, Nadal only on RG and he's going to rack up at least 2 more imo. Maybe once or twice more at the USO. Djokovic has 2 advantages going forward: his favorite surface is hard and there are 2 slams on it so easier for him to rack up titles than the other two, and he is the youngest of the 3. Currently I have Federer>Nadal>>Djokovic. In the end I think it will be Djokovic>Nadal>Federer.
    Last edited by Sorin; 11th October 2020 at 11:48 PM.