Tennis

CatalinR10 · Sep 10, 2019

Can't believe there are Barcelona ,,fans" suporting a guy who is 100% Madridista , lmao

so many rm undercover fans here it's unbelievable , sickening actually.

Leo_Messi · Sep 10, 2019

It seems that some user here are either trolling or 10 years old at the most.

Who gives a shit about what team a tennis player is supposedly "supporting". :lol:

Anyway what has that to do with their tennis career? As if the guy is a passionate Ultras Sur member. :lol:

The answer is nothing. Next time you should include the supposedly known political leanings of select sportsmen and if it turns out that for instance Messi is a commie and you happen to dislike communism, you will be forced to dislike him, using such moronic logic.

I already wrote that Rafa is as much a madridista as many users here are culés. In fact I could argue that Rafa is more of a culé as he has actually watched the team on numerous occasions in person unlike the majority of users here, I suspect.

rafael-nadal-visits-johan-cruyff-memorial-at-camp-nou-4.jpg

The guy is more a fan of Spanish football than anything else. You can find similar photos of him in relation to Atlético de Madrid and RCD Mallorca as I wrote.

Anyway Nadal>Federer.

Hardy · Sep 10, 2019

highest individual level? who? Nadal? this is just laughable :lol:

Leo_Messi · Sep 10, 2019

Hardy said:
highest individual level? who? Nadal? this is just laughable

Who has been better than a pre-injury prime Nadal?

Nadal has the best career winning percentage (minimum 500 wins) at 83.13% (966-196 record) at the Open Era to date. It is a question of time before he will surpass Federer and have the most Grand Slam wins.
The same Nadal that dwarfs Federer in head to head matches. :lol:

The only one of the top 3, to have beaten the other 2 in their primes
repeatedly at the greatest stages.

The player with the most Grand Slams in his 30's to date. Olympic gold medalist in singles and doubles, unlike Federer and Djokovic. Only male tennis player in history, alongside Agassi, to have completed the singles Career Golden Slam.
A record 35 ATP Tour Masters 1000 titles. Who won the greatest Grand Slam final to date (Wimbledon 2008) against a prime Federer? The list goes on.

So absolutely nothing laughable about a prime Nadal being the GOAT. If not for Nadal's serious knee problems (more serious than anything Federer or Djokovic have faced as written earlier) he would already have more Grand Slams wins than anyone else.

Let us not even talk about winning mentality, never-die-attitude or his personality on and off the pitch. Class act.

What is laughable is trying to reduce Nadal's undeniable legacy and legitimate claim for the GOAT title.

Zidane82 · Sep 10, 2019

Leo_Messi said:
What kind of childish and moronic logic is that? No offense.
Nadal is as much a madridista as he is a culé. The guy has been watching Barça at the Camp Nou numerous times and praised the team as well as Atlético de Madrid and RCD Mallorca. He is a football fan.

Plenty of reasons. To begin with Nadal is Spanish and Catalan (the natives on the Balearic islands, in particular Mallorca are Catalans) and he is an all-time great on and off the field with the most remarkable attitude and never die attitude that every aspiring tennis player can look up to.

Not really. Nadal is way superior in head to head matches against Federer and is far better mentality wise as well. The tennis player with the highest number of Grand Slams won in his 30's. The tennis player with the highest individual level of the 3 to date. The only one that defeated a prime Federer repeatedly when playing on Federer's favorite turfs. The most dominant clay player (by far) to date. One less Grand Slam than Federer while being 5 years younger. Worked himself back to the elite level from much more serious injuries (knee injuries in particular) than both Federer and Djokovic. Second most Grand Slam finals to date.

Nadal also owns the Open era record of most consecutive years qualifying for the year-end ATP Finals at 15 years in a row. As of September 2019 Nadal has the Open Era record for best career winning percentage (minimum 500 wins) at 83.13% (966-196 record), ahead of Djokovic's 82.70% winning percentage.

One could easily argue that he is the GOAT and those who use the Federer-Nadal comparisons as if Federer is Messi and C. Ronaldo is Nadal, do not have a clue about tennis, with all due respect.

Nadal is one of the most technically gifted tennis players to date with an insane winning mentality (unlike Federer who has been choking for years in a row - 4 Grand Slams in the past 10 years says it all competing against a prime Djokovic and Nadal - rivals of a quality that Federer never faced initially when he was winning left and right) and a physical beast.

Nadal’s stats are padded out by all those wins sliding around in the sand .

serghei · Sep 10, 2019

Leo_Messi said:
Not really. Nadal is way superior in head to head matches against Federer and is far better mentality wise as well. The tennis player with the highest number of Grand Slams won in his 30's. The tennis player with the highest individual level of the 3 to date. The only one that defeated a prime Federer repeatedly when playing on Federer's favorite turfs. The most dominant clay player (by far) to date. One less Grand Slam than Federer while being 5 years younger. Worked himself back to the elite level from much more serious injuries (knee injuries in particular) than both Federer and Djokovic. Second most Grand Slam finals to date.

Nadal also owns the Open era record of most consecutive years qualifying for the year-end ATP Finals at 15 years in a row. As of September 2019 Nadal has the Open Era record for best career winning percentage (minimum 500 wins) at 83.13% (966-196 record), ahead of Djokovic's 82.70% winning percentage.

One could easily argue that he is the GOAT and those who use the Federer-Nadal comparisons as if Federer is Messi and C. Ronaldo is Nadal, do not have a clue about tennis, with all due respect.

Nadal is one of the most technically gifted tennis players to date with an insane winning mentality (unlike Federer who has been choking for years in a row - 4 Grand Slams in the past 10 years says it all competing against a prime Djokovic and Nadal - rivals of a quality that Federer never faced initially when he was winning left and right) and a physical beast.

Now we're getting into the Nadal - Federer rivalry and it's a never-ending loop.

Federer is better on fast courts and grass. Nadal is better on clay and slow hards. This was the case in most of their meetings. The fact that Nadal wasn't a consistent performer on grass and fast hards until Federer started to approach the age of 30 is why the h2h was lopsided at some point.

And even so, h2h is not as lopsided now. It's 60%-40% for Nadal. Which is close. Federer's best surfaces are grass, fast hards, and indoors. They have met the fewest on Federer's best surfaces, and the most often on Nadal's best.

Hardy · Sep 10, 2019

serghei said:
Now we're getting into the Nadal - Federer rivalry and it's a never-ending loop.

Federer is better on fast courts and grass. Nadal is better on clay and slow hards. This was the case in most of their meetings. The fact that Nadal wasn't a consistent performer on grass and fast hards until Federer started to approach the age of 30 is why the h2h was lopsided at some point.

And even so, h2h is not as lopsided now. It's 60%-40% for Nadal. Which is close. Federer's best surfaces are grass, fast hards, and indoors. They have met the fewest on Federer's best surfaces, and the most often on Nadal's best.

this, h2h in tennis is an overrated stats, Federer has negative h2h more than anything because he was just too good in his prime to not reaching the last stage of majors, even in his worst surface on clay, maybe he should have been more smart and losing in the early rounds like Nadal, I guess his h2h would look so much better :lol:

Leo_Messi · Sep 10, 2019

serghei said:
Now we're getting into the Nadal - Federer rivalry and it's a never-ending loop.

Federer is better on fast courts and grass. Nadal is better on clay and slow hards. This was the case in most of their meetings. The fact that Nadal wasn't a consistent performer on grass and fast hards until Federer started to approach the age of 30 is why the h2h was lopsided at some point.

And even so, h2h is not as lopsided now. It's 60%-40% for Nadal. Which is close. Federer's best surfaces are grass, fast hards, and indoors. They have met the fewest on Federer's best surfaces, and the most often on Nadal's best.

Nadal leads 24-16 in head to head matches against Federer. That is a substantial lead. 66,667%-33,333 in Nadal's favor.

Pre-injury Nadal was dominating Federer on clay, slow hards and hard courts. Even winning the infamous 2008 Wimbledon final. Let us not forget that Nadal has been out injured for a combined total of over 2 years. Far more than any of Federer or Djokovic. Yet Nadal is the player with the most Grand Slam wins in his 30's. Only 1 less overall than the 5 year older Federer as well who has only managed to win 4 Grand Slams in the last 10 years. Nadal has won 5 Grand Slam in his 30's alone (a span of 3 years). As I wrote earlier in this thread, I don't really think that the rival's that Nadal had to face (prime Federer, Djokovic, Wawrinka and Murray) are comparable to what Federer faced early on in his career when he was winning most of his Grand Slams titles against the likes of Roddick, Hewitt, Baghdatis, Safin, Philippoussis etc. with all due respect.

Almost every state out there is in favor of Nadal and when Nadal overtakes Federer in number of Grand Slams won, there should not really be any discussion. Only Djokovic (who never truly faced a prime Nadal nor Federer) can change the cause of history.

Rest is about aesthetics and what you prefer to watch.

serghei · Sep 10, 2019

That's like saying Ronaldo > Messi because he has been better in CL. And the CL is the biggest competition. It's settled then.

Don't want to see you guys saying Messi GOAT or some things like that. Ronaldo won more so he is the best. Rest is about aesthetics.

But you're right about that. There is no real reason for why Ronaldo or Messi would be better than one or other, and the same applies between Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic.

Neither is greater than the other in these cases.

Leo_Messi · Sep 10, 2019

serghei said:
That's like saying Ronaldo > Messi because he has been better in CL. And the CL is the biggest competition. It's settled then.

Don't want to see you guys saying Messi GOAT or some things like that. Ronaldo won more so he is the best.

What are you talking about? In what world is a direct confrontation in tennis comparable to CL success in football which is a team sport first and foremost? It's not like C. Ronaldo has won 8 more CL titles than Messi ffs. Just 1 more CL title while being 3 years older!

Nadal is superior to Federer in Grand Slam finals as well.

Nor has C. Ronaldo won more trophies than Messi. Not close. Nor is he better individually (goals per games, assist per games, head to head matches). Pretty much the same picture like Nadal-Federer with Nadal being superior stats wise and soon to be trophy wise as well.

serghei · Sep 10, 2019

Leo_Messi said:
What are you talking about? In what world is a direct confrontation in tennis comparable to CL success? It's not like C. Ronaldo has won 8 more CL than Messi ffs. Just 1 more while being 3 years older!

Nor has C. Ronaldo won more trophies than Messi. Not close. Nor is he better individually (goals per games, assist per games, head to head matches). Pretty much the same picture like Nadal-Federer with Nadal being superior stats wise and soon to be trophy wise as well.

OK. So because he won more, he is better. Isn't this your main argument? Nadal will be greater than Federer because he will have 1 more GS?

Then why the hell is Senna considered the greatest F1 driver? Or Ali the greatest fighter? Neither have the biggest records in their sports. This is not mathematics. 2>1 so it's settled. Only in exact sciences an argument exist in itself without context. 2 is bigger than 1 because it is.

Leo_Messi · Sep 10, 2019

serghei said:
OK. So because he won more, he is better. Isn't this your main argument? Nadal will be greater than Federer because he will have 1 more GS?

Then why the hell is Senna considered the greatest F1 driver? Or Ali the greatest fighter? Neither have the biggest records in their sports?

You have clearly not read my previous posts if you are asking that question.

By almost every metric and statistic measurable, Nadal is superior to Federer despite being 5 years younger and having sat out over 2 years of tennis due to injuries (serious ones at that too).

Not just because he is likely to equal and even surpass Federer's Grand Slam record, which was mostly formed in Federer's early days where there was no Nadal or Djokovic to compete against as written earlier as well.

It's a combination of all those factors that makes me and many others rate Nadal higher.

I don't see any comparisons with Messi or C. Ronaldo making much sense if the logic is that Nadal is C. Ronaldo and Federer is Messi. It is actually the other way around as argued in post 1391 and the statistics confirm it too. As for CL and Grand Slam comparisons (makes no sense in my eyes but let us play that game), much like C. Ronaldo in the Messi rivalry, Federer is older than Nadal (5 years compared to the 3 years of difference between Messi and C. Ronaldo) and much like Messi, (CL wise), Nadal has only 1 Grand Slam less than the older Federer.

serghei · Sep 10, 2019

Leo_Messi said:
You have clearly not read my previous posts if you are asking that question.

By almost every metric and statistic measurable, Nadal is superior to Federer despite being 5 years younger and having sat out over 2 years of Tennis due to injuries (serious ones at that too).

Not just because he is likely to equal and even surpass Federer's Grand Slam record, which was mostly formed in Federer's early days where there was no Nadal or Djokovic to compete against as written earlier as well.

It's a combination of all those factors that makes me and many others rate Nadal higher.

I don't see any comparisons with Messi or C. Ronaldo making much sense.

Is Nadal superior to Federer on grass? No.

Is Nadal superior to Federer on indoor courts? No.

Is Nadal superior to Federer on fast hard courts? No.

Then how can you say Nadal is superior to Federer as a general statement, when it is clear that he is superior in some conditions, and worse in others?

So, NO, Nadal is not superior to Federer in every statistic measurable. He is superior in some, inferior in others. And that's only statistics, let's not even discuss the visual aspects of their games and styles.

DonAK · Sep 10, 2019

Nadal is a Madridista, but unlike 99% of Madridistas, he has a soft spot for Barcelona. Probably due to his uncle and childhood memories, but he's not your typical Madridista.

Besides, rooting for an athlete based on whether they support your team or not is childish IMO.

Leo_Messi · Sep 10, 2019

serghei said:
Is Nadal superior to Federer on grass? No.

Is Nadal superior to Federer on indoor courts? No.

Is Nadal superior to Federer on fast hard courts? No.

Then how can you say Nadal is superior to Federer as a general statement, when it is clear that he is superior in some conditions, and worse in others?

So, NO, Nadal is not superior to Federer in every statistic measurable. He is superior in some, inferior in others. And that's only statistics, let's not even discuss the visual aspects of their games and styles.

Federer is only superior (as in clearly) on grass. Pre-injury Nadal was a force of nature on every type of surface and proved that repeatedly against the same Federer as written earlier. Nadal is superior head to head when it comes to Grand Slam final wins against the same Federer. The infamous 2008 Wimbledon win (greatest Grand Slam final in history).

My initial claim was that pre-injury Nadal was a force of nature and the best version of the top 3 that I have seen to date. Many agree with that opinion. Dominating Federer even more back then.

I am not going to discuss esthetics as that depends on what you prefer. However you can't argue against statistics, number of Grand Slam titles, number of ATP Tour Master 1000 title wins, Nadal having the best career winning percentage in the Open Era to date of any male tennis player, Nadal being out for over 2 years due to injuries in his career so far and coming back from those serious injuries stronger than anyone would have ever believed (he was basically written off), him being significantly superior than Federer in head to head matches, being just 1 sole Grand Slam away from equaling the 5 year (!) older Federer, Federer winning against largely scrubs in his early career when he was collecting most of his Grand Slam titles etc.

Let us face the reality, if Nadal was Federer's age and appeared on the scene at the same time as Federer did, there is no way that Federer would be leading 20-19 today. I would like to see anyone argue against that claim. 4 Grand Slam wins for Federer in the past 10 years speaks for itself as well. Between ages 28-38. Nadal has won 5 Grand Slam titles in his 30's (30-33) alone so far. More than any other tennis player in his 30's to date. People can ignore all of the above but I believe that those stats above speak for themselves and are not exactly diminishing Nadal's GOAT claim.

BTW until very recently, Nadal had a superior head to head against the same Djokovic as well. Which speaks volume. Now, if I recall, it is 26-24 in Djokovic's favor.

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CatalinR10

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Hardy

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Hardy

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