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  1. #16
    The Messiah

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    They're predictably unpredictable

  2. #17
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    As of yet.

  3. #18
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    great win by pakistan in the first odi. really have to hand it to jamshed and junaid khan, both did their jobs really well. jamshed has a lot of potential, he's one for the future definitely. he's got this calm about him that i haven't seen since inzi, after he got settled it seemed like there was no way he was getting out and his shots all had a ton of confidence behind them for a youngster. and junaid was awesome, quick and straight throughout. the one thing we are missing is a quality leg spinner or left arm spinner, because in the middle, malik hafeez and ajmal all bowl quite similarly. rahman is a quality left arm spinner but we'd have to drop him for malik and that exposes our batting lineup. still, this was a great start, we have to keep going. an away series victory in india would really be something special. let's go boys!

  4. #19
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    I just hope PCB doesn't eff them like they did with other promising youngsters in the past. Do we have Inzi as a batting consultant? Jamshed lacked that focus and footwork in the t20s but yesterday he was on just another level. We were all set for the kill when indians were down on 29/5 and usual screwup by Mr. Tuk tuk dropping Dhoni at 16 and rest is history.
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  5. #20
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    Junaid & Jamshed were brilliant!
    Glad for the victory
    but honestly I really enjoyed Dhoni's captain's innings! Brilliant!

  6. #21
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    Dhoni is up shit creek without a paddle at the moment, the coach needs to go as well if he has no power or say in the team

  7. #22
    The Messiah

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    How matches is the series?

    Our batsman aren't used to your bowlers, every time we play you guys you always find some new bowler who is either 7 foot tall or chucks the ball at 90 mph

    ()

  8. #23
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    It's a three-match series, if that's what you're asking.

    No, I completely disagree. Dhoni being made a scapegoat for the failures of the team is so wrong, in my opinion. He knows he doesn't have a strong bowling attack and so plays an extra batsman to outclass teams with their batting strength. Now tell me, who's to blame when those very experienced batsmen stuggle when the ball starts moving around? Without going beyond recent history, we saw what happened against England and now we saw what happened against Pakistan. Most of them, if not all, have obvious deficiencies and do not consistently contribute to scoring runs with a prime example of the latter being yesterdays' match.

  9. #24
    The Messiah

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    Wait. Very experienced? Apart from three or four batsman, all the players in our team are youngsters, much like yours. Especially our bowling attack. Since you stuck to recent history to support your argument, I advise you to look further into the past and you'll see that when on form the team is great, without going beyond recent history, the 2nd T20. The batsman just need to apply themselves and as I mentioned they're are playing alien bowlers they haven't faced before, it takes time to adjust.

    Btw if there is a batting team that struggles with the swinging ball, its Pak.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anidubey View Post
    Wait. Very experienced? Apart from three or four batsman, all the players in our team are youngsters, much like yours. Especially our bowling attack. Since you stuck to recent history to support your argument, I advise you to look further into the past and you'll see that when on form the team is great, without going beyond recent history, the 2nd T20. The batsman just need to apply themselves and as I mentioned they're are playing alien bowlers they haven't faced before, it takes time to adjust.

    Btw if there is a batting team that struggles with the swinging ball, its Pak.
    I didn't say anything about how many experienced batsmen you currently have. What I said was those experienced batsmen struggle when the ball moves around and at times do not contribute consistently to the scoreboard. Yes, the team when on form is great..........on fast tracks where the ball comes on to the bat nicely and you can play in any direction of the wicket. Also, the fact that you used the second T20, where the pitch was very batting-friendly, to reinforce your counterargument supports my claim. So, my point is that solely blaming Dhoni for the failures of the team is wrong because he realizes the teams' shortcomings and suitably reacts to it. Batsmen failing when presented with a tough test is not his fault, though.

    As for the part of us having alien bowlers, I would mostly disagree again. Isn't playing and neutralizing bowlers of whichever type the major test of batting on the international level? Sure, Irfan rarely played on the highest level but Junaid has played some international cricket before ( A test series against Sri Lanka being one of the few examples. ) and hence, isn't exactly an alien bowler.

    As for the last statement, I don't think our conversation is about how well Pak play a swinging ball.
    Last edited by GiantKiller; 31st December 2012 at 01:15 PM.

  11. #26
    The Messiah

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    You shouldn't point out to our deficiencies of playing swing when your batsman are the same if not worse, in fact thats the case for all teams in the sub continent. Thats why I made that statement. I'm a huge Dhoni fan, im not blaming him at all, your confusing someone else's post with mine. Anyway, I saw the highlights of the match and noticed you'll won the toss and decided to bowl when the pitch had a lot of moisture on it, thus aiding your bowlers heavily, that makes me believe that the game really came down to who won the toss. Not taking anything away from the Pak bowling or performance in general, but if you think about it, the exact same thing could have happened to you too considering the ball would have swung for our pacers too.

    That's irrelavant I called them alien because they're alien to US. We have never played them before and hence looking for patterns in their bowling becomes difficult, all we really rely upon in technology to have a look at them. Yes, of course the international batsmen are expected to be able to play all kinds of bowling and what not but the case still holds true. Look at Ajantha Mendis, the guy was unplayable when he started out, but eventually batsman learned to read his variations and now he isn't as effective as before.

    I could have used Shoiab Akhtar as an example too, but that would probably hurt you a lot
    Last edited by Doobs; 31st December 2012 at 01:39 PM.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anidubey View Post
    You shouldn't point out to our deficiencies of playing swing when your batsman are the same if not worse, in fact thats the case for all teams in the sub continent. Thats why I made that statement. I'm a huge Dhoni fan, im not blaming him at all, your confusing someone else's post with mine. Anyway, I saw the highlights of the match and noticed you'll won the toss and decided to bowl when the pitch had a lot of moisture on it, thus aiding your bowlers heavily, that makes me believe that the game really came down to who won the toss. Not taking anything away from the Pak bowling or performance in general, but if you think about it, the exact same thing could have happened to you too considering the ball would have swung for our pacers too.

    That's irrelavant I called them alien because they're alien to US. We have never played them before and hence looking for patterns in their bowling becomes difficult, all we really rely upon in technology to have a look at them. Yes, of course the international batsmen are expected to be able to play all kinds of bowling and what not but the case still holds true. Look at Ajantha Mendis, the guy was unplayable when he started out, but eventually batsman learned to read his variations and now he isn't as effective as before.
    I'd love to talk about how capable my team is when it comes to playing swing but as I said earlier, that would be a completely different topic. We're (Or at least I.) talking about why the Indian team lost and whether the entire blame should be on Dhoni or not. Anything other than that is irrelevant right now. Ah, apologies for being a bit vague. I wasn't addressing anyones' post here regarding Dhoni but I mentioned him because he was being heavily criticized in a particular, if not some, section of the Indian television media which I think is not fully justified for reasons I already mentioned.

    Yes, the bowlers got assistance from the pitch but the initial stage of the first innings was all about patience. Your top-order batsmen had the wrong approach in that part of the game as they played their shots when it would've obviously helped to take it easy for approximately the first ten overs. Furthermore, saying that we would've suffered the same fate had we batted first is highly debatable but I'd only talk about it if the need arises. Also, the Pak bowlers are more adept at getting assistance from the pitch because they can consistently pitch in the right areas unlike your quick bowlers. So, a bowler won't automatically bowl well if presented with a moist pitch.

    As for the bowler being a mystery, I again disagree. In this age of technology, there's no need for bowler to play against you so that you can analyze him ( In football, for example, if that was the case then Barca wouldn't be able to play as well against a relatively unknown team. ). Granted, if it was a mystery bowler like Mendis with lots of tricky variations or even someone like Malinga who has weird action then yes, your statement would hold some truth. Not in the case of Junaid though, who has a comparatively straightforward action and relies on basic swing and seam. Nothing out of the ordinary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anidubey View Post
    I could have used Shoiab Akhtar as an example too, but that would probably hurt you a lot
    I don't see how you could've. :O
    Last edited by GiantKiller; 31st December 2012 at 02:14 PM.

  13. #28
    The Messiah

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    Dhoni getting criticism is normal, happens to every player that captains the team. He won't get sacked anytime soon, I hope not at least.

    Yes, it was about patience and we didn't play all that well, I also gave the Pak bowling credit, in case you didn't read that. We've already seen your players struggle against the swinging ball in the T20's so I'd like you to elaborate on their ability to play if you can As far as only Pak bowlers being able to pitch the ball consistenly in the right areas? LOL. Wait, let me refresh your memory.



    Your completely contradicted yourself in the last paragraph. Yes, technology exists but Cricket is not Football, to be able to fully understand the opposition you need to be able to play them first hand. Junaid and the freakishly tall guy (forgot name) are all mystery bowlers to us, another example is right above you, you had no clue to playing Bhuvaneshwar Kumar, the situation was the same for us with Junaid.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anidubey View Post
    Dhoni getting criticism is normal, happens to every player that captains the team. He won't get sacked anytime soon, I hope not at least.

    Yes, it was about patience and we didn't play all that well, I also gave the Pak bowling credit, in case you didn't read that. We've already seen your players struggle against the swinging ball in the T20's so I'd like you to elaborate on their ability to play if you can As far as only Pak bowlers being able to pitch the ball consistenly in the right areas? LOL. Wait, let me refresh your memory.

    Your completely contradicted yourself in the last paragraph. Yes, technology exists but Cricket is not Football, to be able to fully understand the opposition you need to be able to play them first hand. Junaid and the freakishly tall guy (forgot name) are all mystery bowlers to us, another example is right above you, you had no clue to playing Bhuvaneshwar Kumar, the situation was the same for us with Junaid.
    I don't know why you're so eager to jump to the topic of the Pak batsman playing swing when clearly that's not the point I'm trying to focus at. :O About the part regarding pitching consistently, you do realize that I was talking about the last match? (Forgive me for being vague if that's not the case but my intentions were the same.)

    I did not contradict myself anywhere but you just ignored the part of the paragraph that follows the comparison, which wasn't wrong anyway. Kumar was a total newbie but Junaid, on the other hand, had played at least one test series earlier. So, you don't need first hand experience for Junaid who, I repeat has a straightforward action and uses basic swing and seam. His case is clearly different to that of Mendis or Malinga as the former has many cunning variations and the latter has an unusual action. Analyzing his bowling pitch-map etc. should be more than enough.

  15. #30
    The Messiah

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    I'm only pointing out the fact because your eager to point out the deficiencies of the Indian batsman playing swing, that's why I'm trying to tell you thats its not just us but you'll as well. In fact all teams in the sub continent. Interesting how your statement becomes vague after you get owned Even if you were only talking about the last match then its unfair to say we didn't bowl in the right areas because the help from the pitch in the second innings was non-existent so we naturally wouldn't have got the same purchase off the pitch as your bowlers did, bowling in the right areas.

    He may have played a test series, but did he play against us? No. Hence he is a mysterious bowler to us. Yes he may be a orthodox bowler with a straight forward action, but just like you'll struggled against Kumar (who fits your description of a non-mystery bowler) we struggled against Junaid.