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Thread: Juventus

  1. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    1) You know the answer, we've been over this a 1000 times on the forum, ever since you started the mind-numbing crusade against Lopetegui stemming from the Spain fiasco.
    2) Team wasn't crippled just by selling Ronaldo. Team was equally crippled by 2-3 consecutive windows (while Ronaldo was here) of not bringing in any offensive refreshment, giving new contracts to Bale and Benzema in expectation they would carry the load, while counting on pace and cross merchants to all of a sudden start doing Di Maria dribbling from the wings and drawing fouls.
    3) Why the name-calling? Everyone sees how neatly you avoid the age of core players that play the most and how you love to go the easy way placing the blame on the manager as first line of defense in club squad management. No need to make it obvious.
    At one point last year you were a very arduous supporter of Ceballos and Asensio, two attacking midfielders. Now you've turned 180 degrees and say they haven't brought any offensive refreshments.

    They have, but the young players they've signed haven't stepped up in the absence of Ronaldo. Many of their recent signings have disappointed.

    Barca have bought Dembele and Coutinho, two young offensive refreshments on the winger, and winger-CAM positions. Plus Malcom. Haven't been great, also because of the manager who is just bad at developing players, because he doesn't have an offensive system and likes veteran players.

    When every player you sign plays worse at your club than they did at the previous club, something is clearly wrong with the manager. Every single young player we've brought in has declined under Valverde.

    At the end of the day the manager is the one person in charge with shaping the team and elevating the players. This is the reason Lopetegui, Solari have been sacked. This is also the reason why Valverde should be sacked. Because he has had quality players on his hands and was unable to create a team that can compete in Europe. Nobody other than Valverde has decided that a great ball retainer under pressure is not needed vs a high pressing team like Liverpool, and defending deep is the way to go.

    And the reason why Zidane will be sacked too if the rebuilding of Madrid goes sour.
    Last edited by serghei; Yesterday at 08:35 PM.

  2. #617
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    At one point last year you were a very arduous supporter of Ceballos and Asensio, two attacking midfielders. Now you've turned 180 degrees and say they haven't brought any offensive refreshments.

    They have, but the young players they've signed haven't stepped up in the absence of Ronaldo. Many of their recent signings have disappointed.
    Ceballos is a CM, so stop the BS that you have written on your agenda for years repeating the same tripe without a sense of critique. He was tested in a Modrić role all along during his tenure here and played further up the pitch in only select matches as a rotation option or due to injuries of others, mostly Isco. He hasn't failed or made a massive mark. Nor was he expected to explode with talent. And nobody really thinks he is finished here either, but he's not ready so it's best he goes and that we secure buyback if possible.

    And no, they haven't brought offensive refreshment at all. 8 out of 10 offensive players are exactly the same since the summer of 2017 when James left. That's 3 windows with only Mariano brought in to support. Vinicius is already surplus to expectations and shouldn't probably be a regular starter, but it wouldn't hurt if he were to split the minutes should he be to stay this year.

    Asensio disappointed with his lack of maturity and assessing his work is probably the only real failure of this board and hopes of us fans. Because they were just hopes, only occasionally fueled by Asensio himself who wanted a chance to make his mark. He didn't.

    There was no serious striker to create that Higuain-Benzema competition that led us to 11/12 Liga for nearly 4 years now. Morata wasn't good enough with his feet to displace Benzema despite having a goal every 88 mins of game time and it's a major component of us having enough league scorers either way.

    Lack of Di Maria replacement who left in 2014(!) who absorbed so much attention and allowed others to play off him is still a glaring problem only mediated briefly by Marcelo and Isco in quarterly spells.

    Offense is a problem. But so is defense, this season in particular.

    Barca have bought Dembele and Coutinho, two young offensive refreshments on the winger, and winger-CAM positions. Plus Malcom. Haven't been great, also because of the manager who is just bad at developing players, because he doesn't have an offensive system and likes veteran players.
    You've bought both in the same window their predecessors left, which is no way to break a player you need to fulfill a certain role into a new position or a new club. Turns out Coutinho sucks almost wherever he plays and 4-4-2/4-3-3 is necessary.

    Also he likes vets and experienced players like managers who want to win things do.

    INB4 Ajax argument pops up

    Every single young player we've brought in has declined under Valverde.
    Dembele doesn't seem to have declined. Semedo doesn't seem to have declined. Lenglet is arguably MVP of the season for you lot. Alena played 1000 minutes and from memory did reasonably well despite clearly being less solid

    But Malcom sits in the stands so it invalidates any of the above. I guess...

    At the end of the day the manager is the one person in charge with shaping the team and elevating the players. This is the reason Lopetegui, Solari have been sacked.
    Nope. Neither got sacked for that reason. They got sacked because of bad runs of results in both cases and inability to prepare the same players who nearly got Zidane sacked last year too. Group identity of these lot is what made us start losing so much. And to break it up they had to suffer their own reality checks. Everyone now knows Marcelo is nearly finished with some lingering hope. Everyone knows Benzema had a bit more in the tank, but still won't do the basic striker things well regularly. Everyone knows Modrić is either a goner or in his 'Xavi 2015' year. But these players didn't know. And even a club legend couldn't break this to them, much less would anybody else be able to.

    And the reason why Zidane will be sacked too if the rebuilding of Madrid goes sour.
    Sure. Which doesn't prove anything other than a guy who hasn't done a rebuilding project before, fail in his first one. It just so happens a rebuilding project involves making a team score again at frequencies anywhere near comparable to those we had with Ronaldo in the team. Because that's what fickle fans will expect of us - always reach for the highest bar that's been set. Piss easy

    Pretty sure he knows all that as well, which actually comes across in most of his conferences. And so does everybody and their mother. Today he got asked if it wasn't a waste of time coming back early rather than in the summer and Zidane replied "On the contrary, I had to be here for this".

    But to you I guess if he fails here all he will be is a failed coach. Can already see the narrative developing.
    People are boring.

  3. #618
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    Dude, after all this time I still don't know what your point is? That Barca/Madrid have had some other problems BESIDES average managers (Benitez, Valverde, Lopetegui, Martino etc.) these years?

    Hell yea, sure, and you see people blaming the veterans and the board all the time. It still doesn't change that the manager needs to be sacked. Madrid did it each time every quickly (got rid of Benitez, Lope, Solari after a few months). We need to do it as well. Hell, should've done it sooner.

    There's just no way to dispute that. Almost every Barca fan here knows it.

    Valverde doesn't play the has-beens all the time because he has to. He fucking loves them. He loves Rakitic - Busi, that's why he left Arthur on the bench more and more as the season progressed.

    You make it sound as if Valverde wants to build a new team but is somehow forced not to. When everything indicates the opposite. He has had new fresh blood and he's just tossed it aside, and used the veterans to death in the big games. Because that's what he likes to do, since experienced players is the 'safer' approach.

    The biggest roadblock in the rejuvenation of this team has been Valverde. He is the reason why Dembele was a sub vs Roma instead of exploiting the space behind their lines, or why Arthur was a sub vs Liverpool when our midfield caved under pressure.
    Last edited by serghei; Yesterday at 09:33 PM.

  4. #619
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    Aye. All the time. 3 pages in the Bartomeu thread since June 2018. ALL THE TIME.

    While the average/shit/whateveryoudescribethemas Solari and Lopetegui were met with everpresent vitriol from the Madrid fans anywhere near the levels presented here towards an average manager. Bartomeu dimision signing from the stands. Definitely

    Don't be silly.
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  5. #620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    Aye. All the time. 3 pages in the Bartomeu thread since June 2018. ALL THE TIME.

    While the average/shit/whateveryoudescribethemas Solari and Lopetegui were met with everpresent vitriol from the Madrid fans anywhere near the levels presented here towards an average manager. Bartomeu dimision signing from the stands. Definitely

    Don't be silly.
    Bartomeu/the board brought quality young players. But he is blamed for sticking with this manager and for standing with the veterans. Young players without proper management and proper tactics doesn't bring you a rejuvenated team.

    You do realize criticizing the fact that Valverde is not sacked is also automatically a criticism towards to board I hope.
    Last edited by serghei; Yesterday at 09:41 PM.

  6. #621
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    Ah yes, automatism. Who else is the middle man that will get the crowd pitchfork with "this is on you Barto" carved into their chests, because you can't be arsed to form a coherent narrative against the man himself?
    People are boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    Ah yes, automatism. Who else is the middle man that will get the crowd pitchfork with "this is on you Barto" carved into their chests, because you can't be arsed to form a coherent narrative against the man himself?
    Glad we could sort it out man. So Florentino and Bartomeu are most responsible of Barca's and Madrid's failures. Poor Lope, Solari and Valverde were just caught in the crossfire. Valverde survived because he had Messi scoring, dribbling and assisting for fun in La Liga to save his bacon.

    Doesn't sound like a good explanation for me.

  8. #623
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    No problem.

    BTW, Allegri sucks. Not as much as EV, but I wouldn't touch him with a tenfoot pole.
    People are boring.

  9. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    No problem.

    BTW, Allegri sucks. Not as much as EV, but I wouldn't touch him with a tenfoot pole.
    I don't think he sucks, but I'd stay away from Italian managers too.

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    Allegris Milan was pretty good to watch. Sarri Napoli too.
    Valverde at the moment has this mediocre mix of attack and defense. It's like chasing two rabbits at once, essentially both get away.
    I understand the players are old and can't press like they used to. If Valverde wants to play a more defensive style then his tactics, formations and choice of players should reflect that. However more importantly is the fact that Valverde has a weak mentality and it is reflected in the team. Under a manager like Mourinho we may have lost and played shitty football but I don't think we would bottle three goal leads.

    If we didn't have Messi we would be where Real are currently.