Top players vs. top teams

[Bojan]

Meta made a nice statistical comparison of some of the best forwards of the past decade or so. (click on the link in quoted post)

here we go!

added some Zlatan CL stats from his Ajax days (missing from soccernet).

and I also added RVP, Henry, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Shevchenko, Torres and Van Nistelrooy.

Henry's the closest to Messi. that figures.

enjoy, y'all.

[jamrock]

soccernets stats are at times kinda iffy, but great work, would be interesting to know how many of those goals were double's and hattricks

[adil_909]

here you go bojan, you can move this to your opening post if you wish just so everyone can see it right away when they enter the thread.

[Bojan]

Cheers man, will do.

[nebeer]

Meta made a nice statistical comparison of some of the best forwards of the past decade or so. (click on the link in quoted post)

Amazing stuff. The stats reveal that Messi has an awesome rate of.68 goals per game even against the top most clubs. Whereas Ronaldo scores just .39 goals per game against the top most teams. Eto'o who has scored some very crucial goals in very big games also has the same scoring rate as Cristiano. Even the great Brazilian Ronaldo is a little short of Messi at 0.67. Messi is way ahead in assists as well with 22, whereas Drogba comes second with 14 assists.

[Maria]

I believe that one of the reason of CR's failures in the big games is because he is a player who needs space..also his dribbling skills are pretty poor and he does not have a footbal brain like most of the players with whom he is compared. That we might say is the opposite of Iniesta who's biggest qualities are the one CR lacks.

[T.I.]

Good work. I love comparing stats.

[xaviniesta]

"Statistics are like a bikini. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital."

[ammarfcb]

damn villa has played alot against madrid

[el tren]

Interesting stats. But i miss a goals per match value, which is better for a comparision (at least in the Totals).

Also counting Roma as top team seems a bit odd. I think i would reduce the top teams by them and also Sevilla and Valencia. But whatever

[jamrock]

Interesting stats. But i miss a goals per match value, which is better for a comparision (at least in the Totals).

Also counting Roma as top team seems a bit odd. I think i would reduce the top teams by them and also Sevilla and Valencia. But whatever

Yeah, scoring 2/3 against a top team when your team is winning isn't the same as scoring a game breaker are a watch winner.

certain rooney and henry's stats are inflated a bit by that

[Metaphysical]

Interesting stats. But i miss a goals per match value, which is better for a comparision (at least in the Totals).

I have those stats for us, Real & United from last season and I'm collating the data for this season too (for every single match). but that takes a lot of space to be put down with enough clarity that it's easily decipherable, and I didn't wanna get that detailed on this spreadsheet, which I meant as more of an overview.

plus finding data for certain leagues pre-2001 (when ESPN started keeping records) is fucking hard. Spain, for example, is hard to get anything more than scores. which is the main reason Raul isn't on the list.

Also counting Roma as top team seems a bit odd. I think i would reduce the top teams by them and also Sevilla and Valencia. But whatever

Valencia have been there or thereabouts in Europe for basically the entire decade. only RVP from that list hasn't played them. they deserve to be there for sure.

and I think you're forgetting how good Sevilla got. they were probably the best team in the World in 06/07. and they were on an upward trajectory that only plateaued because Puerta died. if he had lived, who knows how far Sevilla could have gone in 07/08? his death destabilised the whole team.

without Roma, modern football would look wholly different. ok they were great between 2006 and 2009, whatever, that's not the point. Spaletti's 4231 with Totti as a False9 was fucking revolutionary. he reintroduced that system at the highest levels of the game, and I'm sure Pep was influenced by him when he made the decision to play Messi there.

Juve would have been on the list but Calciopoli turned them into a joke.

[Metaphysical]

soccernets stats are at times kinda iffy, but great work, would be interesting to know how many of those goals were double's and hattricks

I thought about noting that (and penalties) down, but it'd cram too much clutter onto the screen I think. too much room would be needed.

fun fact tho: without the 4 goal humping he dished out in a dead-rubber last season, Cristiano's poor record against the big sides would be even worse!

[el tren]

I have those stats for us, Real & United from last season and I'm collating the data for this season too (for every single match). but that takes a lot of space to be put down with enough clarity that it's easily decipherable, and I didn't wanna get that detailed on this spreadsheet, which I meant as more of an overview.

plus finding data for certain leagues pre-2001 (when ESPN started keeping records) is fucking hard. Spain, for example, is hard to get anything more than scores. which is the main reason Raul isn't on the list.

Ah, i think you got me wrong there. All i wanted was an average goals per game - just divide the number of goals vs the number of games, makes it easier to compare

Valencia have been there or thereabouts in Europe for basically the entire decade. only RVP from that list hasn't played them. they deserve to be there for sure.

and I think you're forgetting how good Sevilla got. they were probably the best team in the World in 06/07. and they were on an upward trajectory that only plateaued because Puerta died. if he had lived, who knows how far Sevilla could have gone in 07/08? his death destabilised the whole team.

without Roma, modern football would look wholly different. ok they were great between 2006 and 2009, whatever, that's not the point. Spaletti's 4231 with Totti as a False9 was fucking revolutionary. he reintroduced that system at the highest levels of the game, and I'm sure Pep was influenced by him when he made the decision to play Messi there.

Juve would have been on the list but Calciopoli turned them into a joke.

I mean thats always subjective. For me the absolute top teams have always been Bayern, the english Big 4, the two spanish giants, the Milan clubs and actually also Juventus, who are now indeed out of that after the calciopoli (thats why i didnt ask for them). Basically its all the teams that won the CL since 2000 or have more or less always been in real contention for it, also playing CL pretty much every year.

Imo, teams like Valencia and Sevilla are out of that. Roma even more ... all i know from them was a single semi final appearance where they lost 1-8 to Utd. Not real contenders imo. If you count these teams into the top teams (which is ofc legit) you have to also include like Ol. Lyon for sure. And then might even go further and add the likes of Werder Bremen and maybe even Leverkusen (who almost even won 9 yrs ago if Casillas didnt have the best game in his career).

So im only really interested in seeing these players doing in the direct matchups vs other title candidates, the matches where they arent the clear favorite - sth. Barca always is vs. the mentioned teams.

But thats just me ...