11/12 Lliga: Real Madrid - FC Barcelona 1-3

gingerless

gingerless

New member
barcelonista said:
Chil. We had several key players injured for long periods:

Puyol
Pedro
Iniesta
Sanchez
Fabregas

The latter 2 could not even gel yet with the team.

We're also in a kind of transition year regarding our system. Clasic 4-3-3 seems outdated now. Pay attention to what Pep has to say:



So no wonder we've dropped so many points until now with all these injuries and experimentations. From now on, it can only get better for us. We've beaten RM 3-1 at their home when they were at their peak (and we were not). With everyone back from injury and with a bit more time to fully adapt to our new fluid system with a back 3, we'll truly start to roll after the winter break.

Last year we were in godmode from November until March. After that, we struggled big time. This year it probably won't happen. Rather peak late than early. Sooner or later we WILL peak. And it's scary to know we didn't yet.
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well said. i can only see us getting better from here on tbh, and last season madrid weren't as lucky with stealing points as they have been this season thus far. likewise, we have been very unlucky to drop points and were quite lucky last year in gaining some of those points. last year we did struggle against some of the weaker sides, that is not up for debate.
 
gingerless

gingerless

New member
Trillske said:
Your opinion is worth 1/1000 that of someone sane, so sure, why not.

Nickname wasnt new though. Its about as old as this one.
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it's okay man, there's room for two insane people on the forum. plenty of dull ones to compensate for.

it's the first time i heard that nickname so...
 
gingerless

gingerless

New member
FCBarca said:
Ok...You start out with 'a great victory' but quickly point out RM is in 'pole position' for La Liga...Yet that seemingly contradicts subsequent point that you expect Barca to win the 2nd Clasico (Which would put them even on points but ahead on the tiebreaker)...This while stating that the drop in Barca's performances is significant enough to lose the Liga title

And we are only at Jornada 16...We must significantly improve?...Didn't someone already post that Pep has not repeated the same starting XI this season?...Wasn't Da Sex out for most of the season so far?...Puyol?...I think you've taken a large leap over several mitigating factors for a side still finding their form...Yet are even, on points, with a rival who has been hyped as being the side in world football...Same side that you fully expect to be swept in head to head matchups...So Barça will not win unless they improve a lot?...If the facts weren't otherwise, one would conclude from your argument that Barça were far off the title race

Clasico amazing but can't forget RM are favorites for La Liga title?
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The only part where perhaps your argument started to become clearer was when you pointed out that the away form, particularly against smaller sides, was left wanting...However, to go from that at Jornada 16 to losing a season title race for a club incorporating no less than 3 key squad additions is awfully fatalistic, non?

I mean, the flip side is, how much better can RM play?...And for most fans, it's clear that Barça has yet to find their stride...Yet trumped a side that can likely do no better

Sure, they could lose the Liga title...and they could having beaten RM in both Clasicos...But is that a foregone conclusion or is it even remotely shaping up like that?...I mean, to call it a stretch would be a massive understatement...It'd take major 'glass is half empty' perspective to even go that direction

Meanwhile, the 'glass is half full' perspective is that Mou cannot beat Pep's Barça...that despite not yet being in top form (When they don't need to be yet), they remain the superior side...Logic would dictate that Barça will get better and have a major psychological advantage...RM knows they are inferior

Sorry, Manuel...Just came off a bit smokin' & postin' :p
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even better said, looks like you need to up your game barcelonista
 
Manuel Traquete

Manuel Traquete

New member
FCBarca said:
Ok...You start out with 'a great victory' but quickly point out RM is in 'pole position' for La Liga...Yet that seemingly contradicts subsequent point that you expect Barca to win the 2nd Clasico (Which would put them even on points but ahead on the tiebreaker)...This while stating that the drop in Barca's performances is significant enough to lose the Liga title

And we are only at Jornada 16...We must significantly improve?...Didn't someone already post that Pep has not repeated the same starting XI this season?...Wasn't Da Sex out for most of the season so far?...Puyol?...I think you've taken a large leap over several mitigating factors for a side still finding their form...Yet are even, on points, with a rival who has been hyped as being the side in world football...Same side that you fully expect to be swept in head to head matchups...So Barça will not win unless they improve a lot?...If the facts weren't otherwise, one would conclude from your argument that Barça were far off the title race

Clasico amazing but can't forget RM are favorites for La Liga title?
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The only part where perhaps your argument started to become clearer was when you pointed out that the away form, particularly against smaller sides, was left wanting...However, to go from that at Jornada 16 to losing a season title race for a club incorporating no less than 3 key squad additions is awfully fatalistic, non?

I mean, the flip side is, how much better can RM play?...And for most fans, it's clear that Barça has yet to find their stride...Yet trumped a side that can likely do no better

Sure, they could lose the Liga title...and they could having beaten RM in both Clasicos...But is that a foregone conclusion or is it even remotely shaping up like that?...I mean, to call it a stretch would be a massive understatement...It'd take major 'glass is half empty' perspective to even go that direction

Meanwhile, the 'glass is half full' perspective is that Mou cannot beat Pep's Barça...that despite not yet being in top form (When they don't need to be yet), they remain the superior side...Logic would dictate that Barça will get better and have a major psychological advantage...RM knows they are inferior

Sorry, Manuel...Just came off a bit smokin' & postin' :p
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Eh fair enough, I could have explained better.

Claiming that we'll win the second Clásico and that Real remain in the pole position is no contradiction. Real are in the pole position because they are having a far easier time dealing with the other 18 teams so far. They have been better than us so far despite the Clásico result.

Ah yes, we are only in Jornada 16, which is why it is extra worrying that we already lost so many points. Our margin of error for the next 22 matches is very slim. I'm not saying we've been bad, well on contrary, we've been very good. But we're competing against an extraordinary Real side, so very good isn't enough to win the league. To me, improving has nothing to do with head-to-head. We could have beaten Real 20-0, I'd still maintain that our performance has dropped from last season. This is not El Clásico league, it's a league with 20 teams, and while we used to steamroll the other 18 last season, hence why we won the title, this season we've been struggling.

And I never said that the title was lost and that we losing despite winning both Clásicos was a foregone conclusion. It'd stupid to claim that at this point. I only said that, despite a great Clásico win, Real Madrid still have the upperhand in the title race (which they do, same points and one game in hand, looking a lot stronger against the "bottom 18") and that we need to improve if we want to retain the league, which is also kind of undeniable. You don't think we'll win the league if we lose 11 more points, do you? It'd take Madrid to perform way below what's expected from them.

And I agree that Barca have shown to be superior to Madrid. But this is no news to me, I already favored us in the El Clásico match-up and I favor us even more for the return fixture at Camp Nou. But while Real know that they're inferior, they also know that they don't need to beat us to win the league, as La Liga isn't decided by El Clásico.

And I'm fully aware of what's been going on in terms of injuries/experiments with formations and I believe that we're bound to improve. And I have huge trust in Pep and this team, so I believe they'll pull this off. I just trying to curb people's enthusiasm a bit: we did win El Clásico but in all likelihood we'll be behind Madrid come next weekend and we need to our game to change that situation. We have very little margin for error at this point.

Not smoking and posting, just trying to have an objective view of the situation after the "we're the best, no one can stop us, we'll win everything easily" mindset that invaded me right after the Clásico is finally gone :lol:
 
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FCBarca

FCBarca

Mike the Knife
But Manuel, assuming things now at Jornada 16...Barça are even on points but with RM with a game in hand...And you concede that Barça will win the Clasico...Doesn't that put them back at even on pts, even with a game in hand turning into 3 pts?...Plus, they'd have the tiebreaker...So I fail to see some advantage let alone 'pole position' with more than 60 odd pts yet to play for...That's seriously glass is half empty - regardless of form, away or otherwise

I know where you're going with the tempering of emotions/hype etc...I do...But, and I'm usually pretty even keeled with these things, Barça are superior to RM...That gap is not going to close anytime soon, it can only widen at this point...I am quite certain of that because of reasons we all know, in terms of this squad yet having found their groove...And because of that, La Liga is Barça's to lose, IMHO...It's in their hands, actually in Pep's hands...And we all know how that turns out
 
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P

PhilS

Guest
I am certainly now convinced that Barca is superior to RM head-to-head. If La Liga was going to be decided by 22 more clasicos, I'd bet the farm on Barca. But only one of these 22 will be another clasico, a few will be against teams that are pretty good, but most will be vs. teams that are somewhat or quite a bit weaker. So far this year, Barca has been very good but not great against the rest of La Liga, whereas RM has been great. This is why I still think RM has to be the favorite to take La Liga this year. This will change if RM fades any or Barca regains the consistency they had for so much of last season.
 
dalitis8

dalitis8

Banned
We are favorites for La Liga now:

1. Psychological sucker bunch has been served to Madrid (as i have noted millions of times before)

2. The gap is at max. 3 points, that is if Madrid beat Sevilla on Saturday. With their morale at rock bottom, Sevilla may take something off them.

3. We have been incredibly unlucky so far this season, both with injuries, and with how games played out. That will change.

4. We are nigh indestructible at home, and can win almost all games, without breaking too much sweat. This is extremely positive, for both La Liga, and even more importantly, the Champions League.

5. Cesc and Alexis seem like the best signings in years. They can only get better from here on then.

6. Madrid have been playing at their peak. There is no higher for them to go me thinks.



All I want to see, is Puyol and Abidal being fit and potent for the season to go through, and Messi + Xavi getting some rest. Otherwise, all is under control.
 
Y

Youngie

Guest
dalitis8 said:
5. Cesc and Alexis seem like the best signings in years. They can only get better from here on then.
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Definitely up there with Pique & Alves as Pep's best signings and Dave Villa wasn't a bad signing either.
 
dalitis8

dalitis8

Banned
Real Madrid 1 – Barcelona 3: No Manita but same old Clasico story
Monday, December 12th, 2011

(By Paul Morrissey – follow on Twitter here.)

You really are only as good as your last game in this cold world. Barcelona, the reigning European and La Liga champions, were suddenly the hangdog has-beens, traipsing up to Madrid for the symbolic beating of their lives. The cognoscenti had deemed that a power shift was in the offing; all Real Madrid had to do was repeat the feat they’ve made a rule of in the past fifteen jornadas: win.

But to win when a draw will do changes everything.

The illusion lasted a whole half. After 45 minutes of ferocious hounding by Los Blancos, they hit a brick wall. Ran out of steam. Barca sensed it, and, as if by instinct, seamlessly morphed into a 3-5-2, Busquets dropping back to unshackle Alves, allowing the desperado roam free and peg back Marcelo in the process. Without ever getting their tiki-taka game flowing, Barça struck devastatingly at the vital moments.

At 3-1, Real waved the white flag. Barca belatedly set about circulating the pelota. Rondo, rondo, rondo.

The hatchet men de service, Pepe and Ramos, reverted to type. They started kicking. As with many of their Manitas, there was the sense that Barça chose the scoreline. 3-1, perfecto. They had a flight to Tokyo to catch.


Los Merengues have tried it all now: go tu a tu, press high and counter attack; take the rules of the game to their extreme limit. Talk it up, talk it down. Exhort the players to bark at the media about referees and conspiracies, then close ranks and gag them.

Back in August, Madrid apparently outplayed Barça in the Supercopa. If they did, I didn’t see it.

The one and only time Real have upset Barça’s rhythm for the entire match and emerged triumphant was was when Mourinho invoked Pepe’s Rules in the Copa del Rey final. This more sedated approach does have its disadvantages though: there are less excuses to invent when the inevitable defeat arrives.

Now You C-Ron, Now You Don’t

How to justify the phantasmal performance of Cristiano?

It was all set up for him: consistent goals and assists throughout the winning run, an awesome display for Portugal in their Euro play-off, and… nada. Well, not quite nothing. His presence was more remarkable than his habitual Clasico rendimiento, if only by virtue of his pair of insipid misses, both snatched at with a distinct lack of conviction. If that header had been against Granada, no sooner would he have arrowed it into the top corner than he would have been trotting off for the boobies celebration.

It’s not just the missed chances however. It’s his whole demeanour and contribution in the Clasicos that serves to magnify the belief that he’s a flat-track-bully.

Benzema was at the tip of the 4-2-3-1, but as ever Ronaldo was the de facto number 9. No midfield combinations, no incisive dribbles. Just breaking at speed and placing everything on his ability for timely llegada in the box.

His truly great performances in games that really matter can be counted on one hand. The question needs to be legitimally and continually posed: does he have the cojones for the big occasion?

Messi, like Cesc and even Xavi, had an off day but did the necessary. The Messi-Ronaldo debate, if there ever really was one, is now emphatically put to bed. Until Ronaldo’s next hat-trick against, oh, Granada.

Champs by Default

The damage done to the Real machine will be minimal. Barça leave the continent to allow them to lick their wounds in peace.
With the depth of their squad and favourable calendar, Real can probably afford to lose both Clasicos and yet still win the league by crushing all before them.

As for the Pep Team, the old tongue-in-cheek aphorism about Xavi never giving the ball away can’t be used any more. The maestro is beginning to look jaded, understandably so. His gradual decline can be offset, however, by Iniesta’s return to sharpness. The Glowworm was everywhere, taking Coentrão on a tour of the Bernabeu and even finding time for a coup de sombrero inside his own box. Class being permanent.

This may be the last year of Barça’s outright supremacy; they’re on the road a long time now and the threat of ennui is probably their biggest one.

In a Liga where the Clasico is the only barometer, Barça have shown once again who’s boss
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BS, from start to finish. I am certain that this writer, was one of many who back in late 2008, were saying that Pep's Barca look good, only because they play against teams of SPL level.
 
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