Antoine Griezmann

If we only could afford world class players. Like Ajax or Slavia quality. But all we can get are scrubs like Griezman.

mc_lovin said:

Either way scoring in just 4 of 27 games is shocking for a 100ME+ forward. Irregardless of coach.

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Paco looked like a potato playing for us only to score almost every game under another coach after we sold him.


No one is ever going to reach their full potential with this braindead rodent here.


Valverde is and will always be a disgusting piece of shit.

Its not only about worldclass players. Guardiola had problems to fit in Ibrahimovic - we looked better with freaking Bojan. I expect no coach in the world to make Griezmann, Suarez and Messi work. Or Griezmann, Messi and Fati/Dembele.



Edit: Paco is still underwhelmimg.

mc_lovin said:

Its not only about worldclass players. Guardiola had problems to fit in Ibrahimovic - we looked better with freaking Bojan. I expect no coach in the world to make Griezmann, Suarez and Messi work. Or Griezmann, Messi and Fati/Dembele.



Edit: Paco is still underwhelmimg.

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Ibrahimovic was a nutcase, and a punk, who did what he felt like and expected people to be in awe of him. Picked the wrong club and the wrong manager for that. Griezmann is a true professional and a team player. Nowhere near the same situation.

Paco is a dream squad player and back-up no9 if you know how to use him.

mc_lovin said:

Either way scoring in just 4 of 27 games is shocking for a 100ME+ forward. Irregardless of coach.

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It's not if you use him on the left wing. He can't even cut inside and shoot since he is left footed. Mastermind Ernie used Vidal as a 9 instead of Suarez .

true professional and team player,the one who makes cringy documentary where he pledges his love to one team only to shit all over it several months later. he's poor mans ibra when it comes to self obssesion

serghei said:

It's not if you use him on the left wing. He can't even cut inside and shoot since he is left footed. Mastermind Ernie used Vidal as a 9 instead of Suarez .

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Thats exactly the point, no? And it has been repeated over and over again. He has no place for us. I dont doubt his ability or professionalism - and I actually quite like him. But there is no magic wand aka a guy like Klopp or Guardiola, who can fix his positional issues. Just look at Liverpool/City, they dont have issues like that, because they dont need to fit in players, who dont fit. Salah, Mane and Firmino all play their best position.

mc_lovin said:

Thats exactly the point, no? And it has been repeated over and over again. He has no place for us. I dont doubt his ability or professionalism - and I actually quite like him. There is no magic wand aka a guy like Klopp or Guardiola, who can fix his positional issues. Just look at Liverpool/City, they dont have issues like that, because they dont need to fit in players, who dont fit. Salah, Mane and Firmino all play their best position.

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Of course there is. In terms of profile he is very similar to Firmino. He'd have absolutely no issues playing no9 for City or Liverpool in their fluid system, or for Ajax in a Tadic role. For these teams the striker doesn't play glued to the defenders, but goes in different zones to create superiority and link-up with other players. This is the best role for Griezmann.

He is indeed a bad fit for conservative managers. Can't play no9 for Deschamps, Conte, Mourinho, Allegri, Valverde just to give some examples.

What are you talking about that City and Liverpool don't need to fit players? That's what they do best. For example, there was massive distress between Guardiola and Aguero in the first season. Aguero was benched for months and Pep used Jesus because Aguero wouldn't adapt to his new role under Pep. Precisely because Aguero was used to the past days of Mancini where he was asked to score goals, and wait around for the ball to get to him. Pep demands more from his forwards. Much more movement and workrate, and associative plays. Griezmann would be perfect for Guardiola because he is a smart player, has great movement, willing to work hard, and is a great in combinations. Most of the things which are of great value for any forward in a mobile and fluid setup.

You see similarities between Firmino and Griezmann? Just compare their hold up play (which is essential). Tadic is stronger in that aspect as well. I just cant see Griezmann leading the line effectively. He has no attributes for that (or even for a false 9 role).

mc_lovin said:

You see similarities between Firmino and Griezmann? Just compare their hold up play (which is essential). Tadic is stronger in that aspect as well. I just cant see Griezmann leading the line effectively. He has no attributes for that (or even for a false 9 role).

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He was leading the line very well at Atletico or for France, with half the service teams like City/Liverpool could provide. The difference is these teams employed a pivot player up front. Whereas City/Liverpool have moments where they leave that space empty, making runs into it rather than playing with a pivot. This is why when Firmino, Tadic, or Aguero vacate the central '9' space, other players appear and score. Most notably Salah, Sterling, or even attacking midfielders like Van de Beek, or Wijnaldum, or Bernardo.

We lack any kind of movement patterns like that. That's why he doesn't score for us. Only way he can score for us playing the way Ernie is using him is if he turns into Neymar overnight.

Btw, how do you explain that Firmino is trash for Brazil, and great for Liverpool. I'd be curious how can you explain that? How are his scoring stats for Brazil looking?

serghei said:

He was leading the line very well at Atletico or for France, with half the service teams like City/Liverpool could provide. The difference is these teams employed a pivot player up front. Whereas City/Liverpool have moments where they leave that space empty, making runs into it rather than playing with a pivot. This is why when Firmino, Tadic, or Aguero vacate the central '9' space, other players appear and score. Most notably Salah, Sterling, or even attacking midfielders like Van de Beek, or Wijnaldum, or Bernardo.

We lack any kind of movement patterns like that. That's why he doesn't score for us. Only way he can score for us playing the way Ernie is using him is if he turns into Neymar overnight.

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Thats kind of my point. There is no problem when he vacates the central '9' space (if he plays cf). The problem is the 50% of the time he needs to play with his back to goal or in the penalty area (like the other dudes you mentioned do a lot better). Watching him play the most advanced role looked tragic the few times he did for us.


Edit: Wont comment on national teams - different sport altogether. Liverpool is twice the team Brazil is though.

serghei said:

He was leading the line very well at Atletico or for France, with half the service teams like City/Liverpool could provide. The difference is these teams employed a pivot player up front. Whereas City/Liverpool have moments where they leave that space empty, making runs into it rather than playing with a pivot. This is why when Firmino, Tadic, or Aguero vacate the central '9' space, other players appear and score. Most notably Salah, Sterling, or even attacking midfielders like Van de Beek, or Wijnaldum, or Bernardo.

We lack any kind of movement patterns like that. That's why he doesn't score for us. Only way he can score for us playing the way Ernie is using him is if he turns into Neymar overnight.

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Griezmann was effective for atletico and France as he had license to go where he wanted on the pitch, which is okay as he was/is technically the best player on those teams. We can't let him do that for us as that what messi is for us and he is a level above. A dumb signing by the board. We can play him as a LW or CF but he won't be as good. I don't think even a different manager will be able to improve his level too much for us

Batistuta9 said:

Griezmann was effective for atletico and France as he had license to go where he wanted on the pitch, which is okay as he was/is technically the best player on those teams. We can't let him do that for us as that what messi is for us and he is a level above. A dumb signing by the board. We can play him as a LW or CF but he won't be as good. I don't think even a different manager will be able to improve his level too much for us

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So does Firmino. He has license to look for spaces, and move just about everywhere in the final 3rd because Mane and Salah will be in sync and will also take up the right spaces to ensure that an effective shape is maintained.

You can have more than 1 player with freedom in the final 3rd as long as you know what you are doing as a manager. Check City and Liverpool, or even lesser examples like Ajax or Napoli under Sarri, and look at how their front 3 have license to move just about everywhere. Sterling is as much of a striker as Aguero in many moments. Same for Salah and Mane. How do you think they get so many goals? Mane, Salah and Firmino are all forwards and all can occupy the space at no9 at different moments in time.

What we're talking about here is mostly elite management, vs crap management. Griezmann would slide in perfectly at all of City, Liverpool, or Ajax, or even Bayern, PSG or Dortmund and would have an immediate impact.

Only forward who would be perfect for Ernie is Harry Kane. Everybody else doesn't fit as long as Valverde remains the manager.

Firmino? Good joke.
Lautaro? Same as Firmino, same as Griezmann. Not a striker in any conservative setups, but a forward playing off a striker, or a mobile forward in a fluid system.

Kane, Lewandowski, Lukaku. These are Ernie-working strikers playing the '9' position. Good luck with that.

serghei said:

So does Firmino. He has license to look for spaces, and move just about everywhere in the final 3rd because Mane and Salah will be in sync and will also take up the right spaces to ensure that an effective shape is maintained.

You can have more than 1 player with freedom in the final 3rd as long as you know what you are doing as a manager. Check City and Liverpool, or even lesser examples like Ajax or Napoli under Sarri, and look at how their front 3 have license to move just about everywhere. Sterling is as much of a striker as Aguero in many moments. Same for Salah and Mane. How do you think they get so many goals? Mane, Salah and Firmino are all forwards and all can occupy the space at no9 at different moments in time.

What we're talking about here is mostly elite management, vs crap management. Griezmann would slide in perfectly at all of City, Liverpool, or Ajax, or even Bayern, PSG or Dortmund and would have an immediate impact.

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I still think griezmann was a dumb signing. If you look at the front 3 of Liverpool and man city, even though they interchange, they all have different attributes and balance the attack. Messi, suarez and griezmann, although good individually, are too similar. Griezmann's best attribute is dropping deep to link up play, but messi is better than him at it. Someone like sterling or mane would bring balance to our attack