Antoine Griezmann
- Thread starter Barcaman
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Messigician
Senior Member
Sell this clown for Neymar already and we can go back to playing some beautiful football.
Greaseman literally admitted he doesn't know how to dribble.
We are fkn Barcelona and you're saying our signing player doesn't know how to dribble?
Greaseman literally admitted he doesn't know how to dribble.
We are fkn Barcelona and you're saying our signing player doesn't know how to dribble?
Respekt_III
Anti-everything
Exhibit A
Messigician
Senior Member
Exhibit A of what?
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Each player is different.
And if we could write 100s of skills used by every player, then even Paulinho would have some skills which Frenkie or Arthur don't have.
I am not saying that Paulinho is better than Frenkie or Arthur.
I AM saying that out of 100 tiny details, there will be 20 areas where a team will play better with Paulinho instead of those 2 guys, and there will be 80 skills in which Frenkie is better.
In the case of Arthur, you do have to realize that 90% of Barca's fans are fans of Barca due to our beautiful play and attacking.
So, Arthur is more pleasing on the eye test than Rakitic, so surely that he will win in hearts of fans.
But then, another question to consider: Serghei and some users are downplaying our foorball knowledge because we "don't understand Barca's movement and attacking patterns".
Fine.
But have you ever read a post by Serghei or any of our fans about DEFENDING by midfielders?
I mean, people often talk here about Barca 2011, Pep's City today.
And people are posting videos and pics of Pep's movement, passes and triangles.
Regarding defending, the furthest those users go is=we aren't pressing anymore.
As if football is only=keeping possession and pressing.
Ok, those are very important things.
And with a better pressing system we would need to defend less.
But still, what about actual defending when the opponent has a ball around our box?
For a year and a half, I haven't seen anything in defending from Arthur except pressing.
So, two things: each player brings a lot of improvements and a lot of weaknesses.
So, my simplified theory about Frenkie-Arthur weak defensive duo also makes sense.
Second: when you read these posts, always remember that people here are biased towards technique and attacking.
And that physique and defending is neglected by the board, a coach and in buying players.
Regarding your question whether I am just trying to argue for no reason, no.
For you guys, EV is 90% guilty for everything.
For me, it is 50% for EV and 50% to horrible players.
I have told a few times, I have never seen (bar Messi) the worst Barca since 2000-2003 and Gaspart's era.
You guys say that it is impossible that both Dembele, Cou and Griezz suck, lol.
Yet in 2000s, we lost Figo and then spent 100s of Millions in current terms for:
Washed out winger Overmars=sucked
100m for a Brazilian kid winger Geovani Deiberson=sucked
Bought best midfielder in the World=Mendieta, a horrible fit
Bought a hottest Spanish kid Gerard Lopez from Valencia for 100+m=a horrible fit
Bought a new Maradona Riquelme=a bad fit
So, in the span of 2 years in early 2000s, we bought MORE bad fits than today, we bought 4 extremely expensive failures in Mendieta, Gerard, Overmars and Geovani.
And over time, it showed that our coaches weren't guilty.
Mendieta was a system player.
Who played awesome at Valencia and sucked in other clubs and systems (like Griezz).
Deiberson was an unproven kid like Dembele.
Gerard was another kid who had 2 good seasons at Valencia and ended as a total failure in the rest of his career.
Overmars from Arsenal was past his prime, washed out superstar, like Griezz.
So, for you guys, it has to be EV.
But Dembele will be a failure in all clubs.
Has Griezz ever played well in a possession team, plus he is on a huge decline.
Coutinho, a disaster at Bayern and they won't buy him.
Malcom, a Crystal Palace level.
So, the difference is how we rate the blame.
For me, a current team is full of drained players past their prime: Messi, Suarez, Busi, Raki, Vidal, Pique, soon to be Alba.
Horrible fits: Cou, Griezz.
Overrated players: Dembele, Malcom etc.
We have 4-5 decent players in Mats, Lenglet, Umtiti, Frenkie, Arthur.
Yet you guys brag about the best team in the world.
Our team looks as if someone is playing a roulette and is randomly buying players whom the ball/roulette picks.
Yeah, EV sucks and some things will improve without him.
But this is one very bad, and very badly balanced team.
We are starting to look as bad as Real's Galacticos after 2003.
A washed out team filled with lazy, complacent superstars where there is no balance and only the most shinier names have to play.
In Galacticos, David Beckham was a pivot so that all superstars could play in the same time. Zidane, Figo, Beckham, R9, Raul.
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JohnN
Senior Member
We are pretty close to RM's galacticos era. It's sad, but we are still one of the top teams and should be able to play better football. An overhaul is needed badly and it must start with a new manager who has a plan, that doesn't include any of our seniors. This will not happen for at least another couple of years the way I see it.
I agree. This should be a big priority for us. But these are very rare. There is Mane, Sterling, Sane, Saleh, Son, Gnabry...who fits this profile? They are already at the elite clubs and I really cant think of anyone who I think can develop into that role. Rodrygo looks like someone who can develop into that.
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MTL_Barca
Well-known member
The thing is you can't make up numbers of how x is responsible for a certain % of problems, that's just not working out. Is the squad perfect? Far from it, but at this point i'm absolutely convinced EV is overall bad/mediocre and he is especially bad at developing players and creating roles that fit their strengths and therefore it has become really hard to judge any player. We've all seen players/teams suddenly improve dramatically after a new coach took over...but honestly, was it always THAT clear the coach is the problem? Usually the players also look like shit after some time so it's really hard to judge. I mean players have the flaws for sure but wouldn't it be quite a surprise if Barca somehow assembled a full squad of overpaid shit players or is it more likely that the squad is actually decent, maybe a bit overrated, but still decent with a bad coach? "Rating the blame" is usually very hard because of how much the coach is involved in everything.
Also i don't think anybody seriously thinks Valverde is responsible for 100% of mistakes. But no matter if it's 50%, 70% or 80% he is the single person that has the most influence on the group so it makes sense to blame him first.
For me the group performance is often just so bad that it just can't be because of the players anymore. Even if it's not a squad that's favored to win CL every season it should at least be able to comfortably beat the worst la liga team but oh well here we are struggling and creating basically NOTHING. And it wasn't just a bad game or a one time thing, it's absolutely not a surprising performance and that just can't be the result of having bad players. It can't. And therefore i have to blame Valverde first and the players second because these players pretty much can't be THAT bad.
Of course there also is the bigger picture and EV is just a result of Bartomeus board and yes the squad also needs work but no matter what that still doesn't make Valverde any better.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
A fair point, where you say that it is hard to judge today how bad is a coach and how bad are players.
I don't want to sound like an asshole when I preach about the past, but I have seen a similar fall/end of a cycle disasters with several big clubs.
Especially if they have ruled the world for years and if they had a complacent core.
Ac Milan won 5 Cls from 1988-2007.
And since 2004, they won only 1 Seria A title.
They had 12 different managers since then.
Have they ever started to play beautiful or win titles again? No.
Remember: 12 managers in a row.
Ok, we are richer so we won't end as Milan.
But their famous era and Nesta, Maldini, Costacurta and their amigos caused the same problem.
Real Madrid Galacticos.
They won Cls in 1998, 2000 and 2002.
And the last league title in 2003 with Del Bosque.
After that: Queiroz, Camacho, Remon, Luxemburgo, Lopez Caro.
So, the things started to go downhill with old core, complacency, galacticos during Del Bosque.
They sacked him and NONE out of next 5 coaches in a row won any titles.
In the 6th attempt, Capello in 2006/07 won La Liga.
So, in the case of Galacticos, did they have 5 bad coaches in row (plus Del Bosque), or the core of their old players R9, Zidane, Figo, Beckham, Roberto Carlos, Raul, Morientes, Guti, Hierro (and tons of bad signings like Robinho, Gago, Julio Baptista, Owen, Cassano, Woodgate, Cicinho, Drenthe lol) were a problem?
Of course, some coaches might have been meh, but their old players and HORRIBLE signings were a real problem.
This story sounds EXACTLY like a current Barca.
Or Man Utd.
They ruled in England for 20 years.
After Ferguson, they had Moyes, Giggs, Van Gaal, Mourinho, Solskjaer.
They are worse and worse with each new coach.
What is more likely:
That all of their coaches were bad?
Or that their players are a bunch of overrated players.
Now, go to Barca.
We were more successful than Milan, Galacticos and Man Utd.
That means that our core players are physically and mentally probably even more drained than guys from clubs from the above.
Now add a few horrible transfers (Dumbele, Coutinho, Malcom, Griezmann), and voila, a history is repeating.
Regarding a new coach, I already have fears of new alibies.
If we'll hire Koeman, people will say: he is shit. He is a slightly better EV version2.
And then I will have to read again how players aren't overrated, but Koeman/EV2 is a bad coach.
And people will whine that we need flavors of the Month like Xavi (lol), Gallardo or Ten Hag.
Also, except those 3, only Pep and Klopp are good coaches.
So, more or less, a new coach will be lebelled as shit quite soon.
So, imo, the only option for our players to get exposed is to sign Xavi, Gallardo or Ten Hag, and when those "magicians" will inevitably fail here, maybe people will start to point fingers into players.
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Batistuta9
New member
A few weeks ago, I seen a couple of rumours that griezmann is an option for psg in the summer. I think everyone at the club realises by now he just doesn't fit. As far as I'm aware players are no longer cup tied in the CL. What are the chances the board go back in for neymar with cash plus griezmann bid in January?
KingLeo10
Senior Member
BBZ's new theory is that because we had tremendous success between 05-15 (4 CL, 7 Liga) that we shouldn't expect success for another 10-15 years with another 5-6 managers.
Am I reading this correctly?
If so, this guy will do ANYTHING to ensure EV is not the one to blame, lol.
Am I reading this correctly?
If so, this guy will do ANYTHING to ensure EV is not the one to blame, lol.
Batistuta9
New member
BBZ's new theory is that because we had tremendous success between 05-15 (4 CL, 7 Liga) that we shouldn't expect success for another 10-15 years with another 5-6 managers.
Am I reading this correctly?
If so, this guy will do ANYTHING to ensure EV is not the one to blame, lol.
You guys shouldn't bother too much with his posts. Although he sometimes comes up with decent points, most of the time it's just numbers all over the place. You get the vibe that he knows best from his posts.
Football isn't black and white and you can't win with the best statistically individual players, there are a lot of hidden attributes that you only see from watching games. Some clubs have tried and failed using the moneyball method used in baseball
BBZ8800
Senior Member
BBZ's new theory is that because we had tremendous success between 05-15 (4 CL, 7 Liga) that we shouldn't expect success for another 10-15 years with another 5-6 managers.
Am I reading this correctly?
If so, this guy will do ANYTHING to ensure EV is not the one to blame, lol.
No, my theory is that EV is only a part of the problem and that players are very meh bar Messi.
And that a new coach won't improve this team mixed of too old players and bad new signings.
But, we will be able to see it soon.
A hint: prepare new alibies for those times, regarding our players.
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